Who are you to dictate what is a "smart" action, or who is a "true" fan? How is buying unlisenced, 3rd party products in any way shape or form "supporting the hobby", and how is it any different from buying unlisenced, third party "KO" figures? Is buying imported figures from outside the intended market "supporting" the local company? Does Hasbro USA get money or benefit from anyone buying Takara products instead?

Really? I would rather customise myself, or buy a custom that used parts from a KO, providing the thing didn't fall apart on me. I would be happier that I got a custom, fully articulated G1 Grimlock toy that DIDN'T chop up a rare, Diaclone Takara Tomy Dinosaur T-Rex and cover it in paint, just to make it. I am sure Takara and Hasbro would be happier that you didn't chop up their official products, too. If you "hate" KOs, wouldn't damaging them be more preferable to chopping up the "nice" ones?
Also, it's not the parts or materials that always inbue value in a piece of art or craftmanship; it's the crafting, man-hours, and subjective beauty in the final result.

Stan Lee's signed illustration of Spiderman on a piece of regular office paper or dingy comic-grade paper is still worth a fair price. Modern art pieces that use found objects, or collage/mixed media are still important/expensive by virtue of the end result and/or the message/reputation of the artist.

I thought you previously made a post here congratulating others for not resorting to name-calling and abuse? The language used here seems to show the contrary. Also, who are you to judge others? What is "being a cheapskate"? Are people who buy second-hand official products just as bad? Afterall, they are not giving money to the original shop/company. How about people who wait for the bargains or sales at shops?

If you are going to create a thread asking people for their opinions, I reccomend not insulting them for actually doing so or for the opinions given.

Oh really?
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Inside the 'Star Wars' Bootleg Toy Boom: How Cheapo Oddities Became Super Expensive Rarities


In the link above, you can see examples of how some bootleg or KO toys are actually extremely sought-after, expensive collectibles. There are youtube channels that also feature rare, Mexican Kos of this or that which can command absolutely silly prices. Often the throwaway nature, strange packaging, limited production run and other wacky features create figures that are much rarer and individual than the figures they wer based upon. My friend runs a toy site, called "Tokyotoybastard" that deals with custom, limited run "bootleg" Starwars figures that emulate this look. In fact, many of the vinyl toy artists cut their teeth in this area of the toy world and use such figures in installation art, etc.

By contrast, OFFICIAL figures can actually be worth next to nothing, due to the poor quality, large production numbers, etc. Again, here's another Star Wars example for you:
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What of the personal value we attribute to our figures and toys? For me, the KOs I have are amazing and so diferent from my official or even 3P toys that I feel that I have got limited edition exclusives. The OSKO Evasion Nemesis Prime is so much more beautiful and worth more to me than, say, MP Ironhide and Megatron together. It's rarer, too.

I also give them away, to my GF's kids in Japan. They LOVE them. The eldest kid wants MP figs, but he's still too young to look after them well and can't understand how to TF them. He wanted MP Megatron, so I got him the OSKO "Mechanic Master" Megatron to cut his teeth on. He thinks it's amazing. Both boys love the OSKO Skullcruncher and Hardhead I got them, too. It blew their minds that they could be so big and cool. They now command legions of their official Takara Transformer toys in battles accross their carpet. I also give the cheaper freebie OSKO/regular sized Micromasters that Sirtoys gives away with orders to the youngest kid. He loves them. In fact, being able to give her kids affordable toys that are so different makes me really happy, as Takara TFs are so bloody expensive.

However, isn't giving away such toys yourself contrary to your argument? Are you yourself, with the KOs you bought, not "supporting" the fandom and, by giving them to others, simply providing them with alternatives to the "real deal"? Aren't you impeding sales of official figures at least twice?

I agree. Lying about the product IS shady, but just as shady as people selling loose/opened/incomplete figures as "MIB", etc. It's not the KO that's to blame here, but the seller. Same with selling official reproductions as "vintage".

Why? What's it to you what someone does? The fact they have KOs means that there is a greater chance of YOU getting the real one out there in the big wide world. I haven't met anyone in all of the years I have collected TFs and toys ever snub my collection or toys for any reason whatsoever. Each collection to their own. I have been JEALOUS, for sure, but why would anyone here get irked by someone else's collection? Some people only collect movie bumblebees, which I find puzzling and silly, but I don't feel annoyed with them or look down upon them. I reserve that for people who collect "boys' love Tf doujin".

I am not young but I have no problem with KO collectors. I think most of your beef is with KO vintage figures, and although I don't, I would also say that many of us here actually collect or buy more recent KOs, which are usually improved figures with new paintschemes, sizes or sculps/parts. I wouldn't hate them, and I wouldn't presume to look down upon them. As mainly Takara fan, I don't look down upon those who buy Hasbro figures (as I buy some myself)

 

Comment of the night in my books! LMAO

 

I'll raise you this video:

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There really is no difference. Sophists try to justify the distinction by claiming that the added work needed to design their own illegal representation of another companies IP somehow legitimizes it, but the reality is that 3P's are sponging off the long term financial and creative investment of the official companies and their so-called "creativity" is just another form of copying.
As for cost, I'd be very interested to hear how much the 3P companies are paying the designers of their products, and how that cost factors into the overall production cost of the toys. I can't imagine the designers fee's are more than a few percent compared to the cost of moulding, materials, factory hire, assembly, finishing, QC, packaging, distribution, not to mention salaries/worker hire. Even being generous and assuming that the designers fee is 10% of the total cost of the toy (which seems outrageously over-generous) - the remaining 90% of the cost is identical for 3P and KO companies, and that ignores that fact that reverse engineering a product actually costs money as well.
I like to play a little word game with this KO concept. Take the sentence:
"Keen Funny Toys are stealing the work of FansToys and profiting off it"
Now replace "Keen Funny Toys" with the name of any 3rd party company, and replace "FansToys" with "Takara Tomy".
The sentence now reads:
"3rd Party Company "X" are stealing the work of Takara Tomy and profiting off it"
The two sentences are functionally equivalent and are both 100% true and accurate.
Here's another fun little one, for Bobby Skullface, who created the video that sparked the debate and who runs a nice little sideline in selling his own pictures of comic book characters, again swapping the terms in the original sentence:
"Bobby Skullface [is] stealing the work of DC Comics and profiting off it"
Again - completely factual and accurate. Bobby was quite happy to rage against KO's, while freely admitting that he sells illegal knock-off artworks of licenced characters.
Standard Disclaimer - I collect Official, 3P and KO, and make no attempt to hide it or justify it. I know what I do is a violation of IP and I accept that. The difference is I don't try and lie to myself about it.

 

Talking of KOs, why hasn't anyone done a KO of Hasbro MP-10? Seriously that's the one I want. TRU sold out original at $160 in minutes and scalpers jumped it to $230! WTF?

 

BBTS has a hasbro version for 159

Transformers Masterpiece Optimus Prime (Reissue With Trailer & Vector Sigma Gift Set)


KO transformers have been around since G1. They haven't put them out of business yet.

 

He responds to comments on his reviews, but for his "Sitdown Saturdays" videos, he doesn't.

 

Not anymore, now 240...yikes!

 

Fansproject made Steelcore and then died. So...

 

I think conspiracy theories without proof is just a theory.

Now how about some reality:

Reality is we don't know, so making assumptions or far fetched guesses is pretty ridiculous without facts and proof, don't you think?  

IMHO, I think companies die due to lack of sales and over extending themselves on big undertakings and yes, by making the same product as everybody else. Sure it's a massive gamble, but it's true when you look at it. to this day MMC, and Planet X have been making their own stuff based on popular things currently, or things that have their own fan base and fan demand. TFC is hanging in there with the best set of toys they've ever made to date: their Seacons. it's all based on luck and the fact they try to do their own thing.

Sadly, Fansproject, toyworld, impossible toys, igear, and now sadly even Make Toys are falling to the wayside due to many different facets, facets we still don't know all the facts to.
And rumor still is that Fansproject is going to make a comeback but under another banner.

Ultimately none of that matters in the end so long as us the collectors continue to relish in the fact that companies out there will continue to make shit we can buy. and if they die, oh well another will rise in it's place and continue to make shit we will buy. because this fanbase is a goddamned goldmine.  

For us, I feel like it's win-win. for them they own factories most of them, if their TF journey fails, they'll just close shop and go back to making rulers, shampoo bottle, radios, car parts or whatever the hell they made before getting involved in making transformers goods.

 

That makes no sense. A conspiracy is an actual thing. Perhaps you mean "Conspiracy theories without proof are just theories."

 

Actually, that was (and still is?) a problem in Japan. I think foreign companies had to submit their ideas for copyright/etc for much longer periods than local Japanese companies, or something. This allowed Japanese companies to then copy and sell their own stuff before "foreign barbarians" could pollute the market. Other practices were also utilised to protect the Japanese market, too, if I remember rightly.

 

Link I posted is 159.99.

 

He's making a point by stating that his collection is just "cool stuff that includes Transformers", rather than be pigeon-holed into someone else's definition of "toy collecting" with their related definition of what a "toy" is.

 

  I fixed my reply up there just for you. I hope your okay with that, or the something else I posted you wish to challenge and correct me on?    

 

Unless it encourages Hastak to make toys that feature better engineering and/or release more OS versions of toys at an affordable price themselves?

 

Well, Fans Project did make some original characters.

 

Why would they, when in Wei Jiang's case...

 

What about KFC? They have the position of being a 3P company with a KO logo...

 

you are aware there's a multiquote function, yes?