Blaming KOs for the rise in price and decline in quality of main line TF figures is nonsense though. Did someone actually do that?

 

Buying KO's may possibly be hurting us in the long run though, because after awhile 3rd parties will stop making the stuff we want so badly out of means to save money.

Why make things if you know it's gonna get stolen anyway, right?

Has/Tak have the means and resources to recover losses. they built multi-billion dollar empires on the backs of it's consumers.

3rd Party companies making fan stuff for us, have not, not yet anyway lol.

Nobody truly knows what will happen really as none of us are experts nor do we own any companies that make toys for adult collectors of various toy hobbies. But so far the numbers and build quality for various things are kinda starting to reflect what's been said.  

 

I mean, I don't mean it quite so degrogatorily as it came across. Most of my collection these days is 3P, and I can't really imagine buying a KO of a 3P product. I dont feel like 3Ps are stealing money of mine that would otherwise be going to HasTak, because HasTak is simply not putting out product I want to buy, and companies like MMC and GT are. I would imagine the same is true for most collectors. If HasTak puts out the best version of something, I imagine most will flock to it. Look at what happened when MP Shockwave came, for example. Not a lot of people flocking to Quakewave anymore. If HasTak started putting new MP dinobots than all these 3P ones would be seeing the inside of sales threads as well. So, in THAT way, I would not call it theft.

But if someone is going to get on a pedestal about it, than lets be real. As far as IP goes, 3P are only not legally stealing from HasTak because they're based in a country where such laws say they're not. But I mean, come on. They're making action figures of, and thus profit from, characters they don't own. What else do you call that?

 

I said it before and I will repeat it again (and others have said it btw): It didnt happen in nearly 40 years time, it wont happen now. The only thing TT/HAz and 3p are having to fear are their own idiotic choices on design and their own shitty QC and pricing policies. Even with those they didnt close shop all those years, they wont now.

 

I have Hasbro/Takara, 3rd party and KOs in my collection. I buy whatever figures look good, ha e good quality, and fit my budget. I have a MP figure for all of season 1 autobots except Trailbreaker, Huffer and brawn. 3 of those are hasbro, 3 are 3rd party, the rest are so called KOs.

Here is the thing, i remember a few yeara back when KOToys.com and a few other companies, like the guys making the CHMS figures or whatnot, they all got sued and shut down HARD by Takara. Because they were producing exact aize replicas in same colors and multiple colors as well.

Look at all the figures out right now that are copies, whether same size, up or downscaled, and Takara does NOTHING. With the TLK figures, some "KO"s were released before the official ones! Now come on, how is this possible and been going on for the past few years without them caring? If it was truely cutting into their profit they would have shut it down. Hell there is already a KO of the MPM-03 and its still a few months from official release!!!

My honest opinion, and i know i cant be the only one, is that some, if not most(i wont say all) of these companies are actually linked and/or owned my Takara. Gives perfect reason to how quick KOs come out and why nothing is done about these companies. The idea that someone knows someone at Takara a
Or is stealing molds and computer files is a little much. I know something of the sort happened with a 3rd party company recently but i doubt takara would be allowing it for so long.

Think about it, there are people who only buy "official" takara, plenty of people who buy for their kids at stores only, and then lots of adult collectors who buy KOs for price reasons. It lets them corner the market and make $ in all areas. Sure selling aome figures labeles as a KO means selling it for less. But better to sell at any price when priduction is gonna be X amount of figures than have tons laying around grtting scrapped. Thats my opinion on it all anyways lol

 

3rd party toys have the potential to do more damage than KOs to fans anyway. I'm positive HasTak is seeing a big drop off in MP sales lately because they're getting into characters that 3rd parties have already done. Who needs to get MP Shockwave, Megatron, or Sunstreaker when you already own Quakewave, one of the 4 good megatrons, or Sunsurge/Spinout? Even if there wasn't a noticeable drop in the quality of MPs, most people still wouldn't shell out $100+ for a figure they already own. I would be more worried about them eventually killing the masterpiece line due to low sales than I am about some random 3rd party not making toys anymore because they can't make as much money off of someone else's property as they used to if I was worried about any of this nonsense at all, which I'm not.

 

Not to as they wish, but to the wishes of their customer base

 

Truth.
HasTak and 3P are their own worst enemies;
Particularly when a ko comes along and fixes their issue for half the price.

 

Its amazing the arguments people get into over silly little toys.

 

And that's bad. I was contributing

 

Yes

 

Has ko's hurt the hobby short term no long term yes.
Short term its not going to hurt hastak sales it might hurt 3rd party's thought.

Long term I used to collect g1 original toys many and a high cost but for some thing that's nearly 30 years old you don't mind then the ko"s started I could not be sure what I was buying so I stopped buying them.

I own 5 mp ko's ko ratbat as I had no interest in getting sound blaster igear coneheads and the other is over sized mp08 as I wanted a big grimlock both have faults worth what I paid for them? Not really but you get what you pay for.

People buy ko stuff (and not just transformers) because 1 they can't afford the real thing or 2 they don't think its worth paying that much.
If you can't afford to collect you really would be better off spending your money on rent,food,family or what ever you need to if you don't think its worth the money why collect them in the first place?

I don't think Rolex watch's are worth what you pay for then I would not bother getting a knock off one

End of the day the 3rd party's can do the same as Hasbro did and tell the retailers if the sell knock off's of their stuff stuff the won't sell any more to them sure they can't stop the eBay sales but eBay is always a risk as even the best sellers can go rogue

 

Let me start off by saying I don't buy KOs. I do buy 3P. I see them as separate and distinct and I think BSF does a pretty good job outlining the differences.

I agree with BSF and Gauge that both official and 3P are creators who make a product we love. Official does it legitimately and 3P takes official IP. But in both cases they create a product from scratch, incur design costs, etc. I think KOs are a parasite that exists only because others do most of the hard work and incur most of the costs. And yes, I know they improve on some of the figures. But ultimately they do more harm than good.

That said, I doubt KOs put a huge dent in the official market. Do they affect it? Probably. Do they threaten it overall? I think that's probably unlikely.

I worry, however, when we see KOs of 3P products. 3P companies are already under heavy pressure to compete with one another. They put a lot of time and effort and money into production and need to capture as much market share as they can while doing small runs and moving low quantities. If KOs can come in and compete with the 3Ps with an identical product while skipping the hard work of creation and design costs...I think we'll see some 3P companies fold that might not otherwise fold due to other pressures.

Ultimately that means less products and choices for us, the consumer, since a KO company can't (or doesn't) create a product on its own. And in the end that hurts as as consumers. And that's on us. If we buy them to avoid cost and that kills the production of some new products that we might otherwise have had, well, as BSF said, it's a snake eating its own tail.

 

Yeah because they didnt KO HasTak for 40 years and wont continue to do so in the next 40.....

 

As long as Has/Tak continues their current paradigm, 3P will thrive and your statement is moot. If Has/Tak decides to change their paradigm, 3P's will change (as will your "what if" point).

 

Dont repeat what you said, I read it. And it makes no sense. If they make 3p to go extinct, they will KO Haz/TT as they have been doing for ever.

 

You have not been into KOing for a long time I presume? Read again what I said in my first reply to you.

 

I'm pretty sure I own "shitty" KOs of Hastak that are far, far superior.

TT will survive because some mom isn't going to go home and see if Weijiang made a better version.

 

    

PM Me, I am a KO Movie director, I have the 1986 TF Movie and I fixed the part where Hot Rod gets in the way of Primes shot!

So True. I think Hasbro is run by some 80 year old angry men and women that hate the 80s, then cry when others profit off it.

Take that part "silly" back I take my toys very seriously!

So true, so true. Although seeing how everyone in the world owns two MP10s, they would have to make the 86 movie grey battle damaged dying prime with recast seriously messed up fragments missing and retire the MP 10 mold forever.