TFW2005 Coverage Of Toy Fair 2017 Hasbro Investor Event

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by SilverOptimus, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. SpectrumBelle

    SpectrumBelle blorp.

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    Do you need to post a fucking essay about it? Chill, dude.
     
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  2. GAUGE

    GAUGE Wargod ARTS

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    lol right? XD

    from looking at it, we still might be able to with some careful surgery under the top half of the head near the main jaw joint.

    If you have issues with reading, scroll down. :lol 
     
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  3. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    I notice his Legion class figure's robot mode has
    an Autobot insignia on his chest. Perhaps he's not an antagonist, or if he is an antagonist maybe he's controlled in some way by the Quintessons or another malevolent force and not evil by himself?

    EDIT: Dragonstorm's packaging also has the Autobot insignia in the lower left corner.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  4. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    Both the first Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter movies came out in 2001. Both series have spin-off films that, while not as critically acclaimed, were still commercially successful within the last five years. I would say that's pretty enduring. Game of Thrones will finish its run at eight seasons. Which is a pretty good run for a tv show.

    First off...
    Tolkien's four most well-known books, The Hobbit and the LotR trilogy, make up four of the top ten best selling works of fiction of all time. Tolkien is the only author to appear more than once on that list too. So I would say your assessment that people don't care about Tolkien, or that his books only appeal to some, is inaccurate. Sales figures don't lie. His stories are extremely popular, and have been for decades.
    It's also worth noting that two other books, on that all time list, are fantasy. J.K. Rolling's first Harry Potter book and Antoine de Saint-Exupery's The Little Prince. So six of the top ten best selling works of fiction of all time are fantasy.

    Secondly, no. I don't need to prove that the Lord of the Rings films are the most popular movies of all time to make my point. The entire series averages to $1 billion a film. That's more than enough to prove they're extremely popular. Star Trek, a hard sci-fi series, has never had a film sniff the $1 billion mark.
    In fact LotR: The Two Towers went head to head with a Star Trek movie: Star Trek: Nemisis.
    LotR: TTT made $926 million against a budget of $94 million.
    Star Trek: Nemesis made $67.3 million against a budget of $60 million.
    So there's that.

    Alternatively you're not a fan of fantasy and will degenerate the genre and de-emphasise its popularity despite all the evidence and reasoning to the contrary.
    I've provided ample evidence of fantasy's popularity. You've yet to provide a single piece of evidence or reasoning to the contrary.

    I'm not exactly doing original research here. Star Wars' fantasy roots have been dissected and analyzed by far more qualified people than I. And I dare say I'm actually pretty qualified ;) 
    But hey. If George Lucas himself saying he gave the Jedi and Sith laser swords to harken back to knights of old fantasy tales, or he himself describing original trilogy Obi Wan and Palpatine as wizards, or his own admittance that he was inspired to write the films after reading Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces isn't enough for you? Then I don't know what to tell you.

    Well you know what they say. Better not engage in a discussion you're not equipped to discuss.
    You'll never see me chiming in when it comes to the ins and outs of Transformes toy engineering for example. I collect the toys, but I have no training or education in the engineering process. Why would I contribute to a discussion I'm not equipped for?
    You though? You're insisting on putting your subjective uninformed opinions on par with the opinions of someone with a lot of knowledge in the area of discussion. And that's pretty gross.

    AoE had Optimus comment that he and the Dinobots were part of an order of knights. The next movie is called The Last Knight and will even include an appearance from King Arthur. I think I'm going on a bit more than just saying "Optimus has a sword."

    TL;DR
    I've got a lot of actual, hard evidence to suggest that a) fantasy is very popular and b) Transformers has had a lot in common with fantasy since day one.
    You have provided no evidence or counter evidence, and insist on treating your self-admittedly uninformed opinion as being on par with someone who is more qualified than you to comment on this stuff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  5. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    I have a MA in medieval history and BAs in history and English literature. I'm not over-qualifying myself. I'm saying I know quite a lot about fantasy and medieval literature, and the history that underpins those writings.
    So when I say "hey Transformers generally has a lot of concepts in common with fantasy literature" it's an opinion, yes. An informed opinion.

    And look. If you don't like fantasy and don't like it when Transformers engages in overtly fantasy narratives? Ok. That's fair. That's your opinion, and it's a valid opinion.
    The issue I take with your general position isn't your personal taste. It's your willingness to a) spin my cold, hard facts as less than what they are and b) take your opinion and extrapolate as fact with nothing to substantiate them.

    You mention you don't like Tolkien. Ok. That's your opinion, and a fair one. Your dislike doesn't suddenly make one of history's bestselling authors of all time not popular though. That's where I take issue with your position.
    You say you don't like fantasy. Which is ok. But then you sink the credibility of your argument by continuing from that point and saying "I don't like fantasy, and therefore fantasy is just a niche genre, despite all the evidence to the contrary."
    I'll never begrudge you or anyone else for personal taste. I will begrudge you for stubborn ignorance in the face of statistical evidence and informed opinions though.
     
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  6. MartyFeeb

    MartyFeeb Wait... it's a bug?!

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    Forget it. YOU WIN.

    I'm too tired (teething baby) to even understand what exactly we're arguing. I wrote a long counterpoint, but without the necessary data, you just write off everything I say and declare yourself an expert. Nice.

    Well, I don't agree on your expertise, as data can paint any picture you like. I do suggest a solution: don't give me random numbers from ancient studies - go out and run your own survey if you want to prove something. Let's see recent numbers. That's the best way to address these disagreements. I don't think gathering sales figures for Tolkien necessarily proves fantasy is as popular as you think - I think those numbers represent the genre's popularity in LITERATURE - and we're not arguing literature. So this is easily sliding into other topics that were really not the point of my original statements.

    But in recognition of your hard work and hard data, I'm giving you the victory. You put in some great arguments, so let's just say I agree with your opinion and call it a day. Also, I love your SN! :thumb 
     
  7. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    Thanks :) 
     
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  8. WheelWave140

    WheelWave140 Hate's not cool, dudes!

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    Congratulations! You beat him by virtue of endurance. I give you my pride.
     
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  9. MartyFeeb

    MartyFeeb Wait... it's a bug?!

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    Run a damn survey before you prove you're the messiah of Fantasy literature. I respect your credentials, but a doctor is not a magician of health. Stop with your damn paper degrees - they represent your time and study, not your immaculate accuracy and godhood. I realize it's your passion, but don't act like those degrees allows you to declare public opinion! Cause who can really gauge that without actual data (i.e. surveying the relevant population!). I just mention some simple facts that argue that fantasy, while meaningful to some, is not the be all, end all.

    Anyway, I'm truly sorry for touching a nerve. This is far more personal to you than it is to me. Again, I concede defeat in the face of your college degrees. I've got a college degree, too. But I'll never use it to prove something as idiotic as this: is Fantasy super popular and does it deserve recognition for so many things that aren't fantasy? It's really all opinion, especially when we get into what actually constitutes a fantasy versus a sci-fi versus actual medieval history, etc. Jeez! For someone as educated as you are, I'm astonished you mix in opinions as though they're facts. I'm sorry - I've been outside! I think fantasy is still niche. I can actually prove it... if I had the time to conduct a proper survey. As I don't, I don't have anything substantial to really stand on against your fantasy college degree (which I didn't know they had). I'm going to drop it - I don't have ill will toward you because we're the same: TF fans. I want to be friends, not enemies. And I'm clearly just irritating you with what you consider pure ignorance. I disagree with you on all of that, and I could come up with proper evidence to dissuade you of my pure ignorance, but I don't have the time right now.

    Anyway, I have yet to see TF5, and I truly hope the fantasy elements helps propel it to the stardom is deserves. HOWEVER, I have my doubts that throwing in King Arthur or wizards will help this next movie break previous records. And if it does break records, what numbers actually constitute a substantial victory and not simply globalizing a historically domestic product? TF4, after all, did not do that well when compared to previous domestic sales numbers - and that's a relevant analysis, even when Paramount glosses over it and uses global numbers to pump up its success. That's my point - your numbers can skew other numbers that disprove your point. But I'm not expert in this topic, so it's unfair to really drag this conversation any further. Sorry for bothering you. :(  I just have a thing against fantasy nerds - they can be very self-important and arrogant about the entire subject.
     
  10. Lazerwave

    Lazerwave My Most Prized Treasure

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    Is there going to be another Transformers Toy Convention soon?
     
  11. MartyFeeb

    MartyFeeb Wait... it's a bug?!

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    :lol 

    I like to think it's important to admit defeat and focus on FRIENDSHIP. I truly hate how this site has so much bickering and conflict. I think we can all be friends, even if we disagree. I would totally buy LordGigaIce a dragon TF I hated, for example, if we were good friends and I knew it made him happy. Cause that's what it's really about: being friends and enjoying the hobby together. Especially when you consider that the TF franchise is one of the few with continuing variety and growth.

    I can skip the entire movie line, for example, and still have plenty of TF toys to buy (official and 3P). That's a good thing. I don't want to fight with anyone about their interest in dragons or medieval settings. What's the point? :) 
     
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  12. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    "I've conceding an argument so I'll use a backhanded insult on my way out" is a real shame. I honestly don't have a problem with the majority of what you've posted, but that bit bothers me.

    No, this isn't personal to me. I just take issue when someone takes their opinion ("I don't like fantasy") and extrapolates it into fact without proof to back it up ("therefore not many people like fantasy").
    So your dislike of fantasy, Tolkien, etc... doesn't bother me. It's how you presented your arguments and denigrated me and everyone who disagreed with you that bothers me.

    Some people told me not to bother with you, that you're a troll and what not, but I've debated with you in good faith. And I have no ill will towards you other than the fact that you opted to end the discussion with "I guess you took this more personally than I did."
    That's just passive aggressive. And I'm half Jewish, so I get enough of that from my family life :D 

    Amen. And I'd totally get you a TFer too :D 
    Cheers.
     
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  13. WheelWave140

    WheelWave140 Hate's not cool, dudes!

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    This is too wholesome for me.
     
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  14. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector TFW2005 Supporter

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    You've just described every user here, including yourself, so the whole thing just falls apart with that line you felt the need to include. LordGigaIce is completely right and I'm stunned by how well he handled himself throughout this entire thing.

    Transformers might be in the science fiction genre, but they also go into the realm of fantasy. The people writing them use their imaginations to help mold the characters and create the worlds. Some of the characters have powers and abilities you'd find in the fantasy genre.

    Self-important arrogant nerds are what's kept this whole thing going for 30+ years and you say it like it's a bad thing. If you're ashamed of us, you should be ashamed of yourself. You talk about all of the fighting and strife on the boards, but then make comments like that. So, which is it? What is it that you really want? (Don't answer that. That's for you to think about, I don't care.)

    I'm embarrassed by the entitlement issues the fandom has, yes.
    I'm embarrassed by the crazy conspiracy theories of what's coming this year when they have facts going against what they're positing.
    I'm embarrassed by how fans can be so cruel and bite the hand that feeds them.

    But, we ARE a community, we ARE nerds and for the most part, a lot of us get along just fine without people saying things as you did here. I'm not ashamed of who I am and I won't let someone like you shame me, either. Maybe you should give that a whirl for yourself.
     
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