Technically, we're arguing what's better: McDonalds or Burger King? Sure we can argue the number of unsatisfied clients, but in the end they are both restaurants that have no Micheline star.  

Edit: What manipulation of stats? Can you elaborate? The main argument on the board was Oscar-worthiness and amount of cash at the box-office, so I did numbers on that. If you want numbers on Razzies -- do it yourself  

 

Manipulation had a connotation I didn't really intend. Your stats are accurate, but I took your basic idea to be that the universes were comparable due to the number of awards each received on average, etc. My contention was that this metric doesn't carry much weight in the big picture given the awards in question don't necessarily correlate with the quality of the story or movie as a whole. Best picture, best acting, best screenplay...those would be metrics that would carry more weight, but none of them apply.

Box office, admittedly, does have value in this discussion, but comparing 5 movies to however many the MCU has isn't really apples to apples either. Let's see if TF has legs in the same way before declaring it at least financially comparable to the MCU.

I view the restaurant analogy a bit differently. I'd say TF is the McDonalds while MCU is like Panera. They're both basically fast food and not fine dining, but with a bigger difference between them. People can like them both, but the quality of the food and perception of each is rather different.

 

There was a time when I'd have said 'Go for it.'. But not after what they did with the first four movies of the current TF movieverse.

If they ever make a Transformers/Marvel crossover movie, I'd want them using a new Transformers live-action continuity. The current movie continuity is bit of a mess as it is.

It'll be interesting to see if the folks from the Writers Room will explain how the various random bits and pieces from Movies 1, 2, 4 and 4 connect together. Or course, it doesn't help that the original writers(?) pretty much admitted they hadn't thought that through, either.

Maybe, I'll change my mind after TF5. I'd probably be open to a story about the movie Cybertronians ending up in Iron Man's Marvel universe and meeting their parallel universe selves.

You know, that could actually work .

 

Got it! The stats were more for guys who were arguing box-office numbers and Oscar nominations  

As you said, none of MCU or TCU movies has nominations in categories that concerns the quality of the story. By that denominator Lord of the Rings swept them off their feet and even Pirates of the Caribbean did better  

Opinions are fickle things, they change. Ten years ago Marvel wasn't universally loved and almost went bankrupt. The DC surely has seen better days. In its early days Fast and Furious wasn't doing so hot and look were it's now. Who knows what will happen in the next 10 years?

That's why I don't argue about quality of the pop-movies. Besides, what's the point of arguing the quality of a movie you don't even care about or don't like? To show off how awesome you're toy is compared to someone's else? The key to good toy is not how fancy it is, but how much enjoyment it brings you. And I can tell you that you can have a lot of fun even with a few bottle caps if you know how to use them  

 

THIS. That's what I've unsuccessfully been trying to put forth for the past few pages. The people holding up the Marvel movies are perfectly entitled to prefer the Whopper to a Big Mac, but to pretend there is some huge gulf between these two kinds of junk food is ludicrous.

 

Except one thing. Many of them aren't pretending.

I admit to being one of them. I've been a long time fan of Transformers, Marvel, and Lord of the Rings. I've been very impressed by what was done with Lord of the Rings and Marvel, despite certain changes. It seemed obvious to me that they were done by people who cared about and understood the source material.

With Transformers, on the other hand, they wasted (meaning killed off and wasted) many characters with great potential - often before they became characters, somehow failed to notice that Brawl was not Devastator - (how could anyone who knew anything about Transformers miss that), reduced the legendary Fallen to a Palpatine wannabe - complete with dialogue cut-and-pasted straight of Star Wars and, okay, I'll stop there.

The Transformers movies have some really great moments, but they're badly written compared to Marvel's. There's definitely a huge gulf there.

 

Transformers movies have had bad scripts and the lack of an overall plan are the two biggest flaws.. It's as simple as that.

 

I need to work on my communication skills. Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

 

And the MCU doesn't have it's share of wasted characters that had good potential? I mean for example can you name one MCU villain so far that isn't Loki,Ultron,and Zemo as well as the Netflix villains and AoS that had any lasting impression or in some cases had potential to be amazing villains yet got severely downplayed or not used enough to be interesting? I can't because that's how wasted their potential was done.

Look I know the TF movies aren't perfect in mostly of it's executions especially ROTF but I also know that not even the MCU always get things perfect or in some cases do things that people don't like at all.

 

Say what you want.

but if Hasbro actually wanted to "tell great stories" they would start over and not make action flicks with poor writers that only appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to pull in cash.

Don't read this next part if you are sensitive about opinions. Especially ones that could differ from yours. I'm looking at YOU twelve-year-old Jeffery

Spoiler

Honestly I could care less about the movies under normal circumstances, but unfortunately as the most exposed form of the franchise, when I say, "I like transformers" the first thing they will likely think of are childish movies with terrible writing. In fact most of the time I can tell by their confused look that they pity me. Every time I have to explain what all transformers can be. "It wasn't all about sex jokes, bad comedy, and cgi that makes you feel ill while watching. There is good transformers media out there."

So yeah personally, the movies make me feel ashamed of being a "transformers" fan simply because of how broad the term is. And I know there other nonsensical parts of the franchise. Kiss players is probably worse but thankfully only we fans know about it, and Generation 1 is a mess but in goofy, innocent way; not a "how could they pour billions of dollars into this pandering drivel" sort of way. The first bay movie may have been decent and the movie comics may have admirably attempted to piece the stories together, but nothing can undo all that like the way I felt when I came out intellectually insulted after watching Revenge of the Fallen for the first time.


In the end -for me anyways- I see the current transformers movies as a parasite. A giant ugly parasite that only serves to make money by taking advantage of people. And in a way, I almost envy the people who can turn off their brains enough to enjoy them. Almost. My preference would be that they start fresh with more character-centered writing based around the transformers and a plot that isn't just an excuse for the director to go what he considers "cool locations". But we all know that's not going to happen, anyway.

I'm sorry for desiring quality entertainment.

 

That was a beautiful post.

 

While Transformers actually suits a cinematic universe I really dislike how this only came about from Hasbro taking the idea from Marvel rather than simply doing this from the start. But that's people for you.

 

Of course they don't. Because to normal people, there is no difference. Transformers Animated, for example -- as great as is it, and as much as almost all of us can agree is infinitely better than the Bay movies in terms of character or story -- comes off as no less childish and silly than the Bay movies to a normal, non-fan human being. If anything, it's the opposite. To them, the cartoon would seem even more juvenile and silly.

And it goes that way for everything that every TF fan loves to believe exists on so removed a plateau. If you could somehow strap some non-fan down to a chair and FORCE them to read one of the MTMTE volumes everyone here is always creaming about -- which would be impossible to do anyway -- they wouldn't perceive any difference whatsoever in story quality or sophistication. Because it's still kid stuff Transformers to a normal person.

I don't think people realize how psycho they sound to normal people when they try to evangelize one form of Transformers as being more adult than another.

 

Before I go any further, I just wanted to say I am very, very, truly, TRULY sorry for my behaviour towards some users I disagreed with yesterday. It was not the right way to respond. My emotions got the better of me. And I should've just left it instead of perpetuating it to a point where it shouldn't have. And I am not proud of it.

As much as I enjoy posting on here, I'm gonna take a break for a while. I'll still see the news but you won't find me commenting much. Thanks to those who I love and respect and support for agreeing with me anyway even though I do not condone my later posts on here.

Now to the subject at hand: As I say as usual, bring it on! Bring on the TRANSFORMERS CINEMATIC UNIVERSE! ��

 

Not really. It depends on who you talk to. Usually I talk to other nerds or artists who enjoy there own fandoms, and some of them understand what it's like to have one part of a franchise not well represent the rest of it.

Even when they don't I just explain myself to them and they eventually get it. I just simply say there are other series and forms of transformers media that are much more enjoyable and less... cringe-worthy. Then again most of the people I talk to usually agree that the bay movies are pretty ridiculous, even the one's who enjoy them as popcorn flicks.

 

It's dumb to dismiss the merits of something just because it was marketed to children or made with the intent of appealing to them. Normal people understand that Steven Spielberg is a good director and Jurassic Park is a good movie despite the fact that I loved it when I was ten and wanted one of those T-Rex toys with battle damage.