Ok quick question involving the plot that was confusing:

Spoiler

I know Lex blew up the hearing. Bruce finds out the crushed legs guy was returning checks with messages written on them. Was Lex intercepting them and sending them back to Wayne or was amputee guy doing that? Did the guy know he was a bomber or was he simply a pawn who didn't know? It isn't clear.

I took it as all Lex.

 

So according to Box Office Mojo Bats vs Supes has landed in 6th place for the all time domestic opening weekends.

1) SW: TFA
2)Jurassic World
3) Avengers
4)Age Of Ultron
5)Iron Man 3
6) Batman vs Superman

interestingly BOM puts it at 4# in worldwide openers with the china inclusive worldwide opening I genuinely thought it would be 2# behind SW.

1)SW: TFA
2)Jurassic World
3)Harry Potter: Deathly Hallows 2
4) Batman vs Superman

 

Spoiler

All Lex. He makes some remark about how easy it was to push Bruce by writing a bunch of fake notes.

 

no why do you think that?

 

Thought so.

 

I'm not surprised. I only expected it to make five to ten million more. It has Batman and Superman in it, and there was a lot of marketing for this, but I don't think it was ever going to crack 200 since it is a longer movie, and it's pretty dark. Plus, Man of Steel and several of this movie's casting choices have been pretty controversial. Granted, no one expected Jurassic World to overthrow The Avengers, but that movie is a fun blockbuster and a sequel to a beloved movie and came out at the right time.

 

So... A couple of questions are really bothering me:

Spoiler

How the hell did Lex know who Batman was? I mean, let's be really generous and say he learn't Clark's identity from the crash Kryptonian ship (even though I'm not sure why it'd have that information) there was literally no explaination to how who knew that Bruce was Batman... And he would've had ot have know considering he was the one sending messages to Bruce in order to egg him on.

What was Lex's motivation for wanting Superman dead...? And then what exactly did he plan to do with Doomsday had Batman succeeded in killing Superman? I mean, that was, after all, his main goal with Doomsday serving as nothing more than a back-up.

Earlier in the movie Bruce explained that he needed to kill Superman because he was too powerful and if there was even a "1% chance" of him turning against Earth it was too great of a risk to keep him around... And yet the fact that he had a mother was enough to humanize him in Batman's eyes to the point where he switched to Superman's side? What, do people with mothers not have any chance on doing evil or reckless things? C'mon... That is really weak.

 

Those are some of my biggest problems with the movie actually. It really felt like watching Bay's TF movies all over again. Snyder has a terrible Batman bias and it showed.

Spoiler

Some other points that bugged me:
1. If Lex knew both Bruce and Clark's identities, why didn't he do anything significant with it? Hell he could've gotten away from jail - who really had proof that it was his doing aside from Lois and Bruce and he could've easily used that knowledge to get his way.

2. The Martha Hostage situation was a terrible setup by Lex and by the movie. Lex was not even remotely monitoring the battle or Martha. I'm also not sure - because I passed on Man of Steel - but does Superman here even have telescopic/xray vision? He could've spent less than a minute to scan the city and find his mother. Batman found her in a few minutes away from the fight. I'm not sure why the terrorist waited for Batman too, since he was given clear instructions to kill her if Superman intruded right?

3. Superman almost drowned just getting the spear and literally minutes later he could fly at super speed to stab Doomsday with super strength. Why didn't he just throw the damn thing at Doomsday since Kryptonite weakens Kryptonians anyway?

4. Batman hated Superman for bringing destruction to Metroplolis but was perfectly willing to risk possible destruction of his city fighting Superman and Doomsday? What if Superman was the monster he thought he was? The city would be in ruins in minutes - but hey he's Batman so he must be right in guessing that Superman would engage in a stupid fist fight instead of torching everything with heat vision. Aside from that he was perfectly fine luring Doomsday to Gotham just so he could get near the spear? Why couldn't he retrieve the spear and go back to Doomsday? It's not like Gotham's that far from Metropolis in this movie. Hell Lois Lane got to Gotham in minutes in a helicopter after all

 

Gee, just like their movies.

 

Spoiler

Honestly, I'd have restructured that final fight in a big way by having Batman get the spear (after rescuing Martha), while Superman and Wonder Woman kept Doomsday contained. Then, Wonder Woman hands Superman her lasso, he makes a John Wayne joke and tosses it around Doomsday to hold him still while Wonder Woman gets to throw it, possibly while muttering something about "Just like Olympia".

Then they could have started building the Hall of Justice where the ship once was.

 

What I meant was how the internet is awash with stories about how bad the reviews are... and now the stories are, "even with all the bad reviews, it still made all the monies!!!"

So yes, really.

I'm absolutely NOT saying the bad reviews "don't count" or trying to insinuate that there's some sort of asterisk needed or anything. I'm simply pointing out that many, many pop culture websites are jumping all over the fact that there are a lot of bad reviews for this movie. It's become trendy to report the amount of negative reviews, which has ventured into the "clickbait" variety in my opinion. And it's stupid to read articles that are surprised this movie made as much as it did, because of the bad reviews. As if this movie was somehow going to not have this kind of weekend.

My point had nothing to do with "DC v Marvel." I haven't seen this movie and I have no dog in that fight.

I definitely was not saying reviews were skewed just to get attention. The opposite, actually. I'm saying the attention is skewed because of the reviews.

 

I don't remember Batman luring Doomsday to the spear. Doomsday fell out of orbit on the randomly abandoned island which just happened to have the spear on it already. Lois is the one that came up with the idea to use the spear against Doomsday. Although she had no idea that Doomsday was Kryptonian.

Damn it. The whole movie gets worse when you think about it.

 

Because that's exactly what they're doing.

It's very 300y, it would not have felt out of place in that film.


Also, why did Thomas Wayne swing for Joe Chill in this one?

 

No one has defended DC and Man of Steel harder than I have. And I agree that it seems popular to nitpick DC to death while hypocritically forgiving the Marvel movies anything and everything. The double-standard is blatant and ridiculous.

But this movie was freaking awful. I can't defend it. I can't even pretend to defend it.

I hate to say this, but the writing in the TF movies is actually better than Batman vs Superman. As bad as the TF movies' writing is, they at least clearly set up the premise and characters for new viewers in each movie. This movie was horribly structured and incompetently told.

Yep.  

 

Wow, I'm genuinely surprised over this turn of affairs.

 

personally i do hold dc to a higher standard, because i like dc more than marvel. and thus i want the dc movies to be BETTER than marvel. and better than what we are actually getting. when a marvel film comes out, if it is good, that's good. if it is bad, i really don't care. and i don't care if it is marvel, or fox, or whomever. but, i love batman and superman. i love the DC characters. so because i love them, i do hold them to a higher standard. so when the mandarin thing happened, i didn't care, and found it to be funny. but, it is a character i have no attachment to. but i do have a lot of attachments to batman and superman, and dc in general.

 

I thought the plot was pretty simple and linear.

Spoiler

1. Superman destroys everything.
2. Humans realise Superman may be dangerous.
3. Batman decides to take care of the problem.
4. Lex facilitates the match up.
5. A bigger threat arises.
6. Batman realises it's wiser to team up with Supe for now.
7. WW joins the club.
8. They win.
9. Supe dies doing so.

If you can't understand such a simple and effective storyline, then maybe you should refrain from going to the movies.

 

Same one he's had with his other incarnations: an absurd envy of what Superman represented.

Spoiler

I'm guessing he was, sorta-kinda-hoping, to use that kryptonite he had discovered .... er, before Bats stole it that is.

Yeah, they really magic cheeto'd that whole scenario.

Spoiler

He was dealing with becoming (slowly) insane. I am theorizing it was due to a certain someone that 'is coming' had to do with it.

Aww. It wasn't that bad. Granted it had moments that definitely needed polishing up, but overall I rather enjoyed the film.

Can't say I agree. TF2 was one of the worst films E V A H. Almost as bad as that Highlander-Movie-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

 

When? And who?

 

I understand... but this makes me sad. Man of Steel is the better movie.

Can't even agree with this, though. Things are confusing and cluttered in BvS, to the point that the TF movies may be better constructed and edited, but the writing being better? I don't see it.

Writing debate aside, I was able to enjoy BvS far more than any TF movie (excluding '86).

 

That would have been better.

Spoiler

For me the part where it goes downhill is after the bombing at the hearing. It would have flowed much better if Batman stole the Kryptonite first, angering Lex, Lex finally deciding to kill two birds with one stone - Lex bombing the hearing and getting it totally blamed on Superman (and not on the suicide bomber) - doesn't have to lead to the flimsy reasoning for Superman and Batman to fight. Batman would come after Superman and after realizing they've been duped - they'd go after Lex who would launch Doomsday on them as a last resort.