IDW Megs, IDW Fort Max, IDW Brainstorm, and Pharma just to name a few off the top of my head.

 

If you define "cruel" as wantonly inflicting pain for personal pleasure, I don't think that Prowl really qualifies.

But if you look at "cruel" in terms of being cold and unfeeling to the suffering of others, then he definitely fits the bill.

Prowl in IDW is the (now former) Autobot Military Intelligence director. He's ordered a lot of black ops, covered up a lot of scandals, deceived and manipulated people, and weighed uncounted lives against larger Autobot goals (ostensibly for the greater good). He knows every dirty secret in the Autobots, and where all the bodies are buried... and is probably indirectly responsible for most of them.

It's basically an interpretation of his old G1 bio as the "logical calculating Autobot strategist" with a heavier emphasis on pragmatic decision-making and gray morality... making the choices that more emotional or upstanding Autobots wouldn't let themselves make.

He hasn't been consistently written, but I think it's a fantastic take on the character, and someone the Autobots really need.

zmog

 

Strangely enough, Getaway and Prowl are both a "ends justify the means" type character. They just handle the execution of their scheming differently. I don't think Prowl would do what Getaway did. I suspect there would be more of a considered thought on who would die to ensure that Megatron bites the bullet. However, broad strokes, they're eerily similar.

 

Most of the IDW Autobots are, at best, anti-heroes. At worst they're sociopaths, hypocrites, and/or thugs.

 

G1 - I guess the Dinobots were pretty brutal, but it was a kid's cartoon.

IDW - Arcee, Whirl (remember how he said he killed Killmaster?), Prowl, Pharma, Star Saber, and Chief (In)Justice Tyrest

Movie-verse - Wreckers, ...maybe Optimus Prime... (Optimus did become a bit pragmatic, and movie-verse Autobots are pretty brutal in their dispatching of Decepticons [though they are pretty hard to kill if Megatron's any indication], but he started out as rather sacrificing himself than slaying his brother, and he only seemed to gradually descend into that mindset over the course of his friends dying, himself dying, his allies betraying him, and his mentor betraying him) Crosshairs, Drift, and Hound. (The latter three had given up on humanity and were ready to shoot defenseless human civilians before Optimus talked them down.)

FOC - Grimlock. (Though not without reason!)

 

No offense, but how is Movie Bumblebee crueler than IDW Arcee? Arcee tortured a guy for years, while almost all of Bumblebee's kills were either in the defense of humans (Rampage, Ravage, Lockdown's hunting dogs) or for avenging a fallen friend (Soundwave).

 

Where to begin with this? His actions are unethical, AT BEST, and while I'm sure he believes they are just, rational, and necessary, it can still be considered cruel to let another suffer and or die for a personal agenda.

Very unethical and whose to say he wouldn't use it to further his own agenda, and he always has an agenda.

If I recall correctly it also killed a couple bots too.

The problem with this is those acts of destruction usually result in someone dying and while I understand the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, as I stated earlier, they're still acts of cruelty.

That I don't see necessarily as cruel, but he was acting like a jealous ex, because he is. To me it was more one of the few times he was guided by his emotions, and that is his main issue. When guided by his emotions he's usually a better bot.

The above is a bad example but none the less he chooses not to listen to that emotional part of his subconscious. His agenda is motivated by logistics. When Optimus merged with him he saw how Prowl thinks, how it was nothing but numbers and calculations, and it disgusted him. Whose to stop him from turning into another Shockwave. Remember his logic was that Cybertron was better off not existing. His emotions are the only thing that keep him in check, but he doesn't listen to them often enough.

If sociopaths, hypocrites, and thugs are the Autobots, what does that make the Decepticon Justice Division?

Well, that whole talking to the radio is cruel my ears and psychosis. Joking and my hate for the movieverse aside, Arcee wasn't just torturing Jhiaxus, she was murdering him over, and over, and over again. Not saying I don't agree with it, though. For what he did to her, he had it coming.

 

G1 Blazemaster

 

Prowl is a prick

 

Objectively, though, I think it is a bit of a stretch calling him the cruelest Autobot, especially when you compare him to Hound, Crosshairs, Drift, and the DOTM Wreckers.

 

The DJD are fanatics.

 

IDW Getaway is just pure evil. I knew I wasn't supposed to like him, but geez.

 

That's just one more item to the list of things they already are.

 

Elita 1 IDW
Pharma IDW
Getaway IDW
Atomizer IDW
Prowl IDW

 

Well, I expect that Getaway got some of his tricks from Prowl... Prowl's his boss, after all.  

Just to clarify for anyone who doesn't read IDW, the above critique-masquerading-as-fact isn't actually true at all.

IDW presents the Autobots as a realistic cross-section of society... the majority of Autobots are actually relatively humane, principled, honourable and straightforward hero or civilian types who are holding up pretty well considering they've been at war for 4 million years.

However, there are also some, a minority, who are neurotic, unhinged, damaged, amoral, antisocial, or just plain bad... just as you would expect to find in any society. In truth, this echoes the very origins of the G1 fiction, which also included a number of socially maladjusted, potentially sociopathic characters among the Autobots (Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, Slag, Hubcap, Repugnus, Afterburner, etc).

zmog

 

IDW Prowl.
TFA Sentinel
IDW Tyrest and his gang.

And fucking Getaway. Stay in your goddamn cell without your limbs and voice box, you jackass.

 

I think your spin is further off than my simplification. The G1 original fiction had characters who were morally gray, but it didn't have characters who were serial killers or evil Machiavellian wannabes. Considering the fact that Roberts based the Autobot / Decepticon wars on the Soviet Uprising, it shouldn't be a surprise that both sides are morally questionable.

 

No, my spin isn't more 'off' than your version.

'Most' of the IDW Autobots do NOT exhibit anti-heroic traits. They are largely treated as 'good' people, who are sometimes pushed to their limits. And also, like I said, as in both IDW and G1, there are bots who are standouts with more extreme or borderline behaviour.

I'm not saying that IDW's universe isn't darker, with nastier extremes, more moral ambiguity and more psychological realism... it is. After all, it's a comic aimed at adults and adolescents, not preteens. But your assertion that "most of the Autobots are anti-heroes or worse" just doesn't hold up, and gives a bit of a false impression. IDW is not a 'grimdark' future where the Autobots are all (or even mostly) psychos.

Some people might be disappointed that a childhood favourite is now more of a jerk (oh, those poor kids who owned Sandstorms or Guzzles) but for the majority of characters, they're still good, sympathetic bots, but with a stronger touch of 'human' frailty.

As for the Soviet Revolution comparison... the Decepticon movement, and Megatron as an early idealist, sure. But the similarities kind of end there. After all, the Autobots were themselves rebels against unjust Senate corruption and Functionist theocracy. Remember, they weren't the establishment. I suppose you could try to spin Optimus into a kind of Trotski figure, but I think it might be a bit of a stretch for the sake of the analogy.

Even in WWII, widely seen as a purely 'black and white' war, there were still bad people and dirty dealings on both sides. Such is war.

zmog

 

Even the Wiki describes it as being much darker and saying that the Autobots often make morally ambiguous decisions. Heck, the upcoming event for the comic is Optimus Prime taking over Earth (more or less) for it's own good. I also wouldn't consider killing multiple innocents 'more of a jerk' with Sandstorm.

As for the whole Russian bit, that was from James Roberts, in one of his interviews. If that bothers you, then let me rephrase it: it is something that is inevitable when one wades so deep into the deconstructionist pool.

Also, I get tired of hearing "but it's for adults...!" Just because something is done for adults, doesn't mean that it has to be dark and edgy. In fact, I would argue that my biggest problem with IDW's interpretation of G1 is that it focuses far too much on the science fiction aspect of universe, while completely ignoring the 'fairy story' aspect (as Tolkien would have described it) of the universe.

IDW's Transformers is not WWII, that would've been the original toy bios, maybe the comics. IDW's version is more akin to WWI.

 

Again, you're citing exceptions, and using them to characterize the majority... which is not how the Autobots have been portrayed in IDW at all.

Yes, IDW is much darker than a G1 cartoon. I never said it wasn't. It also engages in more moral and psychological realism. But your characterization of the entire Autobot movement as predominantly anti-heroes and psychos is pretty far off the mark.

I'm not going to comment on All Hail Optimus before it comes out... but I will say that James Roberts has done a pretty good job of maintaining Optimus' inherent nobility and heroism... while other writers have fallen into the old trap (going back to G1 Marvel) of making him a brooding, morally paralyzed sulk. I think we need more of the former and less of the latter.

If you want to talk about Sandstorm or any of the Wreckers, sure... they have always been the 'dirty' squad of the Transformers. Guys like Sideswipe or Sunstreaker have always been described as characters on the edge. Prowl's depiction as an amoral espionage director is brilliant and far more fitting than previous incarnations.

But the majority of the Autobots are still just mostly 'good dudes'... as soldiers or as civilians caught up in a messy world.

It doesn't bother me at all. In terms of the Decepticons in particular, it's not a bad comparison to make. However, it's an imperfect analogy (rather than a direct one), and in this context it doesn't actually describe the conflict in the ways you seem to be trying to support.

No, but having an undercurrent of maturity, of human imperfection, and of contextual realism is perfectly appropriate to the setting and audience. This has been a direction in sci-fi, fantasy, and comic-book media for over 40 years. It's not 'revisionism for revisionism's sake'. It's actually a means to keep it relevant and intellectually interesting for the target age group. To argue that it shouldn't do that is just silly.

Transformers has always been an allegorical fiction of sorts (something that Tolkien would actually personally condemn), and it has always been premised on a basic fantasy-sci-fi foundation. Nothing has changed in that sense.

It's really neither of those things. It's a pastiche. Yes, in G1, Megatron was often treated as more of a fascist figure, with overtones of a totalitarian military-industrial-complex personification. In IDW, he's presented as an idealist rebel who became corrupted on the road to revolution. I think that's a pretty good shading to give him.

But again, back to the point, "most of the Autobots" are not amoral grimdark caricatures... that's simply a false statement.

zmog