Besides the little bit of action in Chaos Theory, nothing comes to mind. Even the complete destruction of the other LL has barely seemed to weigh on anyone, which seems some kind of oversight.

Also, I'd assume Megs new alt mode would vaguely resemble his Stormbringer one. That was the last time he was a tank, right?

I really wish they left him in that Stealth Bomber instead.

This cover gave me chills...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/filedata/fetch?id=1671385&d=1376114175

 

The thing is, MTMTE is still the only TF book I still buy monthly. I've been on this from the very beginning, and I've been responsible for getting at least 5 other people I know IRL hooked on it... so I'm contributing directly to its sales figures. However, you also know how I feel about the series, and without even taking an online survey, I can say that several of those other readers I know personally have had many of the same gripes. All of this is to say that I don't think that my situation is anomalous; it's rather questionable to assert that the sales numbers necessarily indicate an absolute approval rating. I expect that a great many readers are, like me, both supporters and critics of the series.

Fair enough. Yeah, this thread was veering that way. I do try to suss out where an author is coming from on a personal level, especially when the author puts himself into the material by way of reflexivity and proxy... but the whole slander-mill is a bit much.

On a completely different note, y'know... all this time, I had no idea that Mort was a "she". I never look this stuff up. Well, it's good to know, so now I can start treating her differently.  

(that's a joke)

Anyway, if that's the case, I agree and apologize in her direction for missing the context.

zmog

 

Agreed. Too much filler can cause the story to drag, especially in a series that only has new installments once a month (and recently had large delays thanks to circumstances beyond Roberts' control). TMNT 2012 spent about four months doing filler with monsters of the week that were pretty self-indulgent like #41-43 and it dragged like hell.

 

Well, it resolves a minor plot point (Necrobot), and serves as the bridging element of two (Agent 113, Dominus Ambus), and does a bit of character stuff, but in my opinion, yea. No real conflict, no major changes.

Agreed, Ratchet leveling was a minor temporary event done awesome.

And the personality ticks were tied to moved forward with the Thunderclash plot, that was a plot development of note, but it was a fairly light story aside from that.

 

This was in NO WAY a Filler issue.

Filler by definition can't have any effect on the overall plot, because their only purpose is to bide time for something else to occur. Filler was actually conceived to describe episodes of anime that are made to prevent the TV show overtaking the comic it is based on.

This issue resolved the mystery of the Necrobot and revealed the identity of Agent 113. There's nothing to argue there. It's not filler.

 

The Necrobot wasn't tied to the overall arc (to our knowledge), and the Agent 113 thing is a one/two page affair, which is furthermore not causing more events to happen, but just telling us what information discovered last issue is.

Yes, it's not completely filler, but no issue is. The main plot of the issue was filler, and overall it had less plot progress than either of the Personality Tick issues.

An anime filler episode could still have stuff that moved stuff forward a little, but inching forward still let the manga grow space.

 

I didn't respond to you so as not to drag this on, but Ryan summed it up accurately. And no probs.

About those robots then. I don't consider this a filler issue either. I think the more plot heavy elements being in the preview didn't help, but the world building was satisfying to me (despite raising more questions than answering) and Nightbeat's character moment was also welcome.

 

I dunno if filler is the proper term, but it sure is blatantly a "let's ignore the main plot for a silly side adventure" issue.

It's odd that they really haven't DONE anything with Thunderclash. And now that Rodimus just so happened to have also made a star map, you have to wonder what was the point of bringing Thunderclash aboard.

Spoiler

To die at Tarn's hands, I'm guessing...

 

There's still the issue of using sales numbers to justify a contentious point about the value of opinions... but whatevs.  

And overdue, considering that he was for quite some time "undead"... I was amazed that nobody brought it up before his outburst. I was really waiting for it.

But while the story here could have slid inoffensively into the mix on other occasions, in context with recent issues it becomes part of a trend. As you said, the world-building raises more questions than answers... but in my opinion, not the right kind of intriguing questions... instead they're more of the "I'm not sure if that's really credible... sounds kind of cheap to me" sort of questions. Indeed, the sort of slack, anything-goes approach to world-building over the past few issues is exactly one of the things that has been bothering me.

As I said in my first response to this issue... it's possible I'm being too hard on it. However, again... for me it comes down to 4 months of relatively mediocre MTMTE, and it does foment a cumulative, unpleasant effect.

I think that is a narrow "definition" of filler (a term which predates its usage in anime fandoms). I think you can still address plot points in filler, while still feeling largely superfluous. In the case of this last issue, I wouldn't say that dropping 113 in there and resolving the mystery of the Necrobot were all that important or pressing, and the Dominus Ambus subplot was tautological in the end. You could have dropped this story in almost anywhere... or rather, you could have omitted this story, and other than the 113 tease at the end of last issue, you'd never know it.

But more to my point, lately the stories have felt like they are underdeveloped and that they lack urgency. Sure things happen... they picked up Thunderclash and Velocity, etc... but it feels like these minor plot points have been grafted onto half-formed ideas that Roberts has had rattling around in his head, and for whatever reason, he decided to drop them all into the carousel now, pretty much one after another. There has been some speculation that this is partially due to an issue #50 deadline, which means that certain important plot stuff needs to be deferred to an arbitrary issue number... which I could see as one reason behind the recent spat of... substandard work.

But really I'm just looking for a reason, because I don't want things as they are to become the new standard for this series. I really hope that the streak we're seeing now IS some sort of aberration or awkward necessity... and that Roberts can re-balance the ingredients going forward.

The Costa years taught me a lesson... once a series doesn't feel validating or exciting anymore, month to month... I need to question why I'm bothering to support it. A 4-issue stretch of disappointment or mediocrity is not enough to put me off the title entirely... but 6 months probably will be.  

I'm sure everyone has different expectations or threshholds... but I wouldn't be surprised to see a dip in sales if things don't recalibrate by the end of the year.

zmog

 

No there isn't, because that's not what I said.

 

What were you trying to imply with this then? Seriously asking because that's what it comes across as.

 

I posted directly after a rather nasty post. A couple of people were accusing the writer of believing his own hype and only listening to his twitter followers. I provided examples of other types of feedback available. Sales are one of them.

For a book like MTMTE, which doesn't have any kind of huge marketing campaign to back it up, a rise in sales will usually be the result of positive word of mouth. Digital MTMTE sales rose directly after the Humble Bundle sale and have kept rising. That implies that a lot of people who would not have normally bought the book gave it a try, liked it and then recommended it to their friends even after the Humble Bundle sale was finished.

As a writer, I would have considered this a positive indication that on the whole readers are happy with my work and excited to see more of it. The fact that this particular issue was the highest ranked is of interest, and I mentioned it specifically, because the last 3 issues have had negative press in some forums. However, it would appear that they must have had positive reviews somewhere if more people decided to give the book a try for the first time with #44, rather than the other way around.

Another form of feedback is reviews. When these come from general Comics websites or podcasts (not just Transformers) they are noteworthy as they bring the book to the attention of non-Transformers fans. I have yet to come across negative MTMTE reviews in those types of media outlets* (I'm sure they're out there), but the positive ones I've seen have been exceptionally good. Again, for a writer, this is positive feedback from respectable (?) sources.

So, to say that the writer only receives biased feedback because he's taking the book in a direction you don't like, is a load of bollocks.

I also provided an example of the writer receiving negative feedback, to his face, and how he responded to it. Again, it seemed to contradict the hearsay in this thread. It was also an example of how the writer does have access to different types of feedback and is not only showered in praise. For what it's worth, I've seen him get this on twitter too.

All feedback is good. It's good for me, as a reader, nevermind James Roberts. Disagreeing with someone helps you understand your own point of view. I never implied or said that sales are good hence everyone should keep their opinions to themselves. I said precisely the opposite. Express your opinion, but stop taking cheap shots at the writer just because he's not writing exactly what you want.

Anyway, I hope that's clearer.

*I have seen MTMTE get negative press in Transformers specific podcasts, websites etc.

 

Thanks for clarifying. That's not quite how it came across initially (as Splendic pointed out).

As I explained earlier, I think that the numbers can be deceptive... after all, presumably all the people who are "dissatisfied" with recent aspects of the series are all paying for their copies, and therefore contributing to the success of the title, even while not being counted in any admonitive sense. I would also expect that every vocal position on the series probably reflects a corresponding non-vocal contingent of readers as well.

Sure it's all a matter of opinion and personal evaluation, but I think that the increasing surge in grumbling (from previously strong supporters) probably points to some genuine issues with the work... and I hope that Roberts takes that into consideration too.

That was an interesting moment... rather awkward under the circumstances, since everyone seemed very uncomfortable with the criticism. Of course, it didn't help that in that instance, the criticism that was either badly expressed, or flat out pointless.

In responding to some criticism, I have certainly heard Roberts lean on particular defenses that reframe the arguments, and I don't think always hold up. I don't get the impression that this is a conscious dodge on his part, but rather that it reflects that the discussion and specifics of the criticism itself is not generally very deep or engaged. I suspect he may be a bit more forthcoming when addressing more cogent critiques and feedback... which doesn't preclude getting defensive as well, of course. He seems pretty chill generally, but it's hard not to be defensive sometimes when you're under fire... I know I wouldn't be at my best for sure.  

zmog

 

That is true.

I still don't know why Thunderclash is even onboard in the first place now....like we actually haven't seen him...he's sleeping? Like why have him onboard anyways.

Yeah as you said he's probably gonna die...but he will die a perfect death.  

 

*applause* *upvote*

 

Not necessarily. It works both ways though: folks openly saying that they're not paying for this because it's shit (but they'll keep bashing it regardless) and folks saying that it's their favourite book ever and can someone please share their copy with them. You'd expect that if someone truly hated it, they would eventually stop buying it though.

Negative opinions are usually louder. Especially if you've liked something for a long time and then it changed on you (or you perceive it that way). If you didn't care to begin with, you probably wouldn't care to comment at all. Or if you just like it and carry on liking it, again, not much to say. Change makes people vocalise emotions. For example, I only post in RID/Windblade threads if I've genuinely enjoyed an issue or really disliked an issue, but rarely otherwise.

It's inevitable that you'll lose some, you'll gain some. It doesn't necessarily reflect a drop in quality. Criticism hasn't been consistent - some say X, others say Y, then next issue it switches around. It's not like one loud voice just saying one thing. 'It's too serious' vs 'it's not serious enough' etc.

Some was, but not all. Criticism of #39 reflected comments on these forums (the tone was too light, that's not what I was expecting, the DJD are no longer badasses etc). And the reaction, given it was while jetlagged after a transatlantic flight, prepping for a two day panel/signing spree, well... I would have lost my shit personally. Kudos.

 

Look, all I did was share that myself and my friends have experienced a negative and/or dismissive attitude from Roberts before regarding our criticism of his work on the comic book. There have been plenty of times where people have tried their best to explain why they're dissatisfied with this or that decision and have been met with what basically amounts to "Well, I don't agree with that. Good on you for having an opinion, though!  ", which comes across as really condescending, especially during the times when he's the one who's contacted us after we said something on Twitter that wasn't even addressed to him.

That's not "thinly-veiled character assassinations" or whatever. That's just me sharing a summation of my and other's interactions.

Some of his excuses for the poorer parts of his writing are kind of weird, too. For example, when he made a post explaining why he wrote Firestar and Nautica's relationship the way he did: to mirror the real-life phenomenon of women being pressured to enter into relationships or else they'll be seen as pariahs and show how bad that is...while the comic itself ends on Nautica staying in a relationship that neither she nor Firestar wanted in the first place, and forgetting to give Nautica a real, solid, textual reason to want to continue being Amica Endura with Firestar. The only "reason" we get is because Firestar volunteered to take the social slack for breaking off the relationship...but the comic made it pretty clear that she was sick of the relationship and how awkward it was, too, so it was less of a "she's a nice person, really, because she's sacrificing her social status to save Nautica from the same" situation and more of a "she so tired of how bad this situation is that she's stopped caring about the negative effects of breaking this off" situation.

I mean, yes, I'm not linking you to any specific critical posts so I guess you could label it as "mere hearsay", but I'm doing so to protect people's privacy. More than one of these people have been repeatedly harassed by MTMTE fans (and I do mean harassed, as in stuff like anonymous messages insisting they go kill themselves or constant, insistent messages/PMs yelling at them for how much of a shitty asshole they are) merely for sharing critique or making a post about how they've dropped the series because, in their opinion, the series has become intolerably bad. I'm not going to add to the pile of harassment by linking to their posts to a forum that I know has members who aren't above doing the same.

Granted, that part is all on certain members of the fandom and not on Roberts himself, but you can see how having a creator that comes off to some as dismissive of opinions and a fandom with multiple people who love to attack anyone who says anything but glowing praise about the series can be very off-putting and intimidating.

 

FWIW I think the nature of Twitter makes it really difficult to have a remotely civil interaction of any kind that has any elements not 100% positive. Maybe Roberts handles it worse than other authors, but I haven't seen a specific counter example that comes to mind. A lot of them are moving any engagement with criticism off Twitter and Roberts might be big enough at this point so it would be wise to do the same.

Usually everyone ends up feeling attacked.

 

I'm really sad to hear that. There is no excuse for that kind of thing. I hope these people were reported.

 

I'm no longer reading MTMTE. The book isn't bad per se it's just not clicking for me anymore. I tried reading through the past few issues, and I felt absolutely nothing. It wasn't bad, but it definitely wasn't good (in my humble estimation). I'll come look in on the thread and get Smog's and other people's opinions on the issues, but really, I'm done with IDW.