Game of Thrones - A Song of Ice and Fire for TV!

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by adamthered, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    They erased Jeyne from the show, but they felt the need to include a rape scene which made NO SENSE at all. Then they made Theon the focus of the scene, not the actual rape victim. There is nothing about this that is defensible, saying 'oh but its Westeros is BULLSHIT because Westeros is a fictional place and the writers choose what happens. Rape is not a fucking tool for story telling, if you're going to use it you need to use it well not for cheap shock value and to create fucking manpain.
     
  2. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

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    Does it really matter? Rape is still rape. How about Ramsey mutilating Theon? Were you this upset when he did that? How come I didn't see all of these people go up in arms about that?

    Nevertheless, this is a TV show, not the real world, so get over it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2015
  3. Raiju

    Raiju Navel Shocker Veteran

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    Except rape has been used as a tool of domination and weapon in war. It's a sad reality but that's the truth of it. Westeros is no different in this regard where death and brutality are commonplace.

    Is Ramsay suddenly not supposed to consummate the marriage just because he's going to grow a conscience and decide that it's wrong to rape his new bride right there and then? That would go against his character. The bastard takes what he wants, and in this case, consummating the marriage is expected of him by his father Roose if they hope to keep their claim over Winterfell (and Winterfell is the North for all intents and purposes strategically and politically). Sansa surely will not consent but Ramsay is not Tyrion in this regard (they didn't just name drop Tyrion for nothing in this scene).

    As far as focusing on Theon, what are the show runners supposed to do? Focus the camera on Sansa and Ramsay in the act? Hells to the no (not even the show runners were willing to go that far, thus it's off camera). Also, refer back to my point about Theon having a direct connection to Ramsay's wife this time around. Theon and Sansa will need this direct relationship (of being raised together almost like family and the pain of both of them being victims/violated by Ramsay's vile predilections) to, I surmise, form a bond and figure out a plan of escape together, at least that's what I think will happen next (with Brienne, Podrick, and other Stark loyalists playing a part).
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
  4. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    How many people do you know who have had their dick cut off? I can think of two widely reported cases in my lifetime.

    1 in 5 women in my country will be raped in their lifetime.

    1 in 3 women world wide will be raped in their lifetime.

    One is so rare as to be abstract and impersonal to the vast majority of viewers. The other is a social epidemic that 8% of GoT viewers, a fifth of the roughly 42% female audience that watch it, will have experienced it first hand and will almost certainly know someone who has, if not more than one.

    This isn't war, it is television. The fact rape is used as a tool of domination and violence is EXACTLY WHY SHOWS NEED TO BE CAREFUL HOW THEY USE IT when making an entertainment product. Rape is not something to be be reduced to product for consumption.

    And since it is almost certain someone is going to come out with 'but murder happens in real life and no one complains about that!' the murder rate in Australia is 1.1/100,000, again compared to a sexual assault rate of ONE IN FIVE.
     
  5. Raiju

    Raiju Navel Shocker Veteran

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    And what of murder? Because in this show people get killed all the damn time. Often horribly. But death serves a purpose in storytelling, as it does in GOT, where death has repercussions.

    I think the show runners have taken as much care as they could considering the actress's age and the direction they want to take with her character. Death and rape happen in the world of Westeros (and Essos). Having them pull punches when it doesn't serve the characters would be doing a disservice to them, I think, in the end.

    How will Sansa come to grips with what has happened to her (and probably more will happen to her seeing how this is Ramsay we're dealing with)? Again, that remains to be seen.

    Plus, as you said, this is entertainment. This is television. A show about a fictional fantasy world where death and rape are all too commonplace. No one is forcing anyone to purchase an HBO subscription (or however else one acquires access to episodes...) and watch the show.
     
  6. Nemesis251

    Nemesis251 Wakanda Forever!!!

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    I think that the writers will use the rape of Sansa as the final straw for Jon Snow to finally act and do something about Winterfell.
     
  7. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    It shouldn't be against the rules, if showrunners are going to make inherently political choices like this then you can't expect people not to discuss them. Unless the board rules are 'You can critique anything to do with popular culture, except how women are treated' which would be extremely problematic to say the least.

    Great, rape is always best when used to further the story of male characters. Not having a go, sadly I agree.

    Look, I'm not trying to be rude to anyone here here but I've only narrowly avoided being raped myself, half of my friends have been sexually assaulted, another third had an attempt made, and all of us have been threatened with it. It's a real, daily issue for me and a lot of other women. It's not something that should be treated as a plot device for fiction, and its not an abstract political issue. It is a reality of life, and it shouldn't be.
     
  8. moreprimeland

    moreprimeland Optimus told me to do it!

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    Okay folks, yes, it's a fictitious world and a TV show, bad things have and will continue to happen on this series.... we can post our feelings--we think it's stupid, callous, unconscionable, etc..., but when we start posting in a more political manner about the actions of some of the cast members---who are just actors following a script, then we're crossing into moderation territory.


    Keep it on topic and civil... even when or if some posts contain attitudes that strike too close to home. Report any posts that you feel crosses the line.

    Personally, anytime I see something like this episode, I just try to think of the South Park episodes on GoT.... it helps lighten the mood. :) 
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
  9. Starscreamownz

    Starscreamownz Air Commander

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    I'm going to put forth a cooky suggestion but perhaps we should be patient and see what they do with the aftermath in the next episodes, seeing as how its way too soon to evaluate the scene at the end.

    What needs more ire is the Bland Snakes arc. What genius decided it'd be a good idea to try to film a whole season's worth of scenes in a nearly impossible to shoot in castle in Spain that you only have a week to do so in. I think the Sand Snakes could have been better if filming in Spain wasn't so under the gun. They could have easily just digitally reconstructed the water gardens or built a set off site similar to what was on the grounds and had much more free time to film.
     
  10. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    Oh I have plenty of ire for how the Sand Snakes and Ellaria are being handled too, and Arianne. And lots of other stuff too. In fact season 5 in general.
     
  11. Raiju

    Raiju Navel Shocker Veteran

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    Agreed. I'm interested in seeing more of how Theon and Sansa's strained relationship develops. They were pretty much raised together as brother and sister. In the books, Sansa always regarded Theon coolly seeing how he's a political hostage of the Starks (or the more polite term of ward but the reality is that should House Greyjoy ever rebelled against the North again, Theon would have been put to the sword and Ned is ever a man of his word and staunch enforcer of the law, harsh as it is).

    Theon never had any quarrel with Sansa except to say that she was ever Catelyn's daughter and her spitting mirror image, and we know how Cat felt about Jon Snow. No, Jon has no strong affection for Sansa since both Sansa and Cat treated him like shit (or at least, at a distance) and looking down at him for his bastard heritage. Jon's bound to the Wall and won't make any overt moves to help his half-sister (remember, he turned down Stannis' offer to be raised up from being a bastard and take up the mantle of Lord Stark as Eddard's rightful heir).
    In the books it was Melisandre who was the mover and shaker to help Jon rescue "Arya" from the clutches of House Bolton, and Jon loved Arya the most out of all of his half-siblings so that's the only reason why he agreed with her plan to send Mance and his spearwives incognito to save her. Not sure what the show will do in her place since Melisandre traveled with King Stannis and the rest of his retinue south to retake Winterfell; maybe Mel will take a more active/direct approach instead in the show.

    I'm anticipating the reveal to Sansa that Theon never killed Bran and Rickon, and that Theon truly regrets ever turning his cloak against House Stark and betraying the memory of their father Ned (remember that Theon admitted to Ramsay that Eddard Stark, not Balon Greyjoy, only ever treated him like a son), and perhaps together the two of them will give each other strength where each character alone would be too weak to stand up to the likes of Ramsay and Roose.

    But yeah, agreed, the Sand Snakes stuff was.... pretty awful. The fight scenes between them and Jaime/Bron were just blah (and I tend to love seeing Bron fight since he fights dirty). Punches that obviously don't make any contact with faces, amateurish grunting and yelling on both sides, bad choreography, confused editing. Just didn't enjoy the Dorne scenes at all. Ellaria Sand made some pretty bone headed moves there politically too
    especially since she's thoroughly against further bloodshed and violence in the novels so I'm not sure why the show runners made her character want to start a war between the Lannisters and Dorne at this point.
    .

    This season has been kinda hit and miss to me, with lots of highs (like Arya's storyline) and lows (the Dorne stuff despite how amazing that castle locale is). A bit schizophrenic in that regard. The crazy shooting schedule and the splitting up of film crews probably has a lot to do with how disjointed this season has been thus far, I'm sure.
     
  12. Haloid1177

    Haloid1177 Hey, That's Pretty Good

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    God the Sand Snakes were laughably awful this episode, even the actresses were bad. Season 5 is gonna have to have one amazing payoff at the end for any of this to be worth it.
     
  13. femmebotfangirl

    femmebotfangirl Banned

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    I'd like to think they could turn it around, but I can't imagine it. Regardless I'm not going to be watching any more, if they miraculously turn the season around I'll get the DVD but otherwise I'm done.
     
  14. Mark

    Mark Just here for the toys

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    Well I'll admit I am an easy sell but I am still enjoying the show. Maybe not as much as Season 3 (my favorite), but it is still by far my favorite thing to watch. I think you have to look at the source material - I am a book reader, and as mentioned before, books 4 and 5 really drag on, with very little climax in either book. Now don't get me wrong - I love the books. But I think the show would be basically unwatchable if they followed the books much more closely than they are now.

    As to the scene in question - yep, it was rough. But what did you think was going to happen? Ramsey was going to tenderly make love to her? Or wait until she was ready? Neither of those things would have made sense given his character. And I think they had to show something to show viewers what she is going through, to set the stage and perhaps justify her future actions.

    On a related note, my friend who watches the show does not think she was a virgin, based on the scenes with Littlefinger at the end of S4E8. At first I didn't see it but on rewatching it looked like something could have happened. Also, Littlefinger made a big deal of vouching for her virtue, which seemed to me like a "thou dost protest too much" type of thing. And last I thought Ramsey's remarks about virginity and especially him saying "what's it matter?" seemed odd. Anybody else see this, or are we crazy?

    Anyone know if the show will be on this Sunday? Or are they taking Memorial Day week off as usual?
     
  15. Thenames9

    Thenames9 D-d-d-d-duel!

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    It's on this week. HBO said that there wouldn't be any breaks this season.
     
  16. Mark

    Mark Just here for the toys

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    OK great.

    Wonder why they did away with the breaks? I guess they figure the show is now popular enough that they can still show it on a Holiday.
     
  17. Sentinel

    Sentinel TF Museum Curator Moderator

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    I've got it scheduled to be recorded on my DVR over Memorial Day, so I think we're good. Plus we only have until June 14 for the rest of the season, they can't afford to miss a weekend.

    That episode was almost complete garbage. The Sand Snakes actively piss me off with their atrocious acting, mean mugging the camera the entire time and then being laughably bad fighters. That entire scene was a joke.

    Even Tyrion couldn't save the episode. His scene was ok, but a little silly and while his entire journey is off-book at this point, being captured by slavers is somewhat closer to what happened in the book and gets him to Meereen faster, so I'm ok with it.

    The only saving grace, legitimately great part of this episode is Arya and her storyline. She wasn't just in 2-3 minutes and one scene, but was given some serious screen time and it was used marvelously. I can't wait to see her try on a face and be sent out into Braavos. I'm betting that part of the show will be close to the books and that's exciting (I think we can all agreed that the show is at it's best when it doesn't deviate much from the books).
     
  18. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Veteran

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    Guys, I've removed a few posts that were steering this thread out of Westeros and into the real world. Let's keep it on track.

    Also, while the discussion of the rape is on-topic, because we all saw it, we don't need to be so descriptive with what did or did not happen in that scene.
     
  19. DrGrim

    DrGrim OBEY

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    I haven't watched this season yet, because I don't pay for HBO and instead wait for the DVDs. But with what people were saying about the story slowing down in both TV and book forms from here on out was something I feared. With key players like Ned, Robb and Geoffery out of the way - we're running out of protagonists and antagonists to keep the conflict rolling really, and are now just kind of drifting into stretching out side stories. Unless we can get the White Walkers or Khaleesi's story jump started. But right now there no longer seems to be a central focus left, just groups of people in different places doing different things.
     
  20. Kraken

    Kraken Is a vegiesaurus, Lex. Veteran

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    They were never going to show Sansa actually being raped for a variety of reasons, but the thing is that poor Sansa wasn't intended to be the focus of the scene anyway. Ramsey has no real interest in her other than the strengthening of his position that marrying her and getting her pregnant will give him. There'll be a general day to day torment because that's who he is but his father would never let it get too far so there's not much 'fun' to be had there. Sure he had the thrill of taking her virginity but Sansa's mentally prepared herself for that, she's resigned to the fact that whichever total bastard she ends up foisted upon isn't exactly going to be a kind and compasionate lover.

    No, the focus is intentionally on Theon, because Ramsey has somehow managed to find yet another horrific humiliation to inflict on him, and there's still not a damn thing he can bring himself to do about it so cowed and terrified he is. Brilliantly acted by Alfie Allen, the conflict of hate, fear, anger and impotence on his face was superb.

    Other than that, I'll echo what others have said about the Sand Snakes, they were awful and that was a terrible fight scene. Still chuckling about the magic properties of dwarf cocks, and Ayra as usual was magnificent. I can't wait for everything to backfire on Cersei. Not read the books and avoid spoilers like the plague, but I've got an inkling that the High Sparrow will have some questions for her soon.

    I'm guessing we head back North next episode, should be a good one.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015