I agree. The nerdrage on both sides is very entertaining.

This is probably whatever sympathy I have is: retailers.

 

To get a "3P" product right now usually takes a bit of digging online to find SPECIALTY vendors who sell these. The moment "NOT"-Optimus/Megatron/ whoever starts showing up at Walmart/Target/ etc in cases of 8/10/whatever is when Hasbro drops the hammer. Once the average parent/child/ grandparent can get their hands on a transforming toy visually/ cost/ quality wise to Transformers (R) at regular retail the "3P" stuff goes from a small niche market to mass-market. Not worth the time and money on Hasbro's part to go after "3P" before this point.

And i don't mean the KO chinese stuff here. They KO everything and will always be around.

 

Given the precedent of the Stormtrooper helmet case, Hasbro's protections hinge on if the original series designs can be defined legally as a work of art.

 

It's not five years ago, and we (you, me, and almost everyone on this forum) don't know what has changed in terms of costs, quotas, and all the rest of the myriad factors that go into making a mass-release toyline that's being released in large numbers for relatively reasonable prices to big-box retailers.

I'll admit that I'm spitballing based on what little I do know about costs and restrictions of manufacturing, but I'm not going to assume that I know more than I do. What I do know is that whatever limits Hasbro has to work within, the 3P companies don't have those limits, or at least not nearly as many. Hasbro is doing a pretty damn good job within those limits while still delivering the product at prices under $60+ a pop.

 

Does this cover custom painted stuff too? God forbid someone tries to sell a Thundercracker painted Armada Starscream or a Scourge repaint of CW Optimus.

 

I'm not getting all of the whining here.

1) If you want third party figures, there are websites that sell them, many of whom sponsor this forum. It's easy. Furthermore, the vendors who would like to sell third party figures at Botcon are the SAME FUCKING COMPANIES whose websites are advertised on here. BBTS, TFSource, Captured Prey, etc... If you want something from them it's as simple as point, click, paypal. Nothing is stopping you from getting something from those guys. It's not really different, minus having to wait a few days for shipping, instead of instant gratification.

2) Who the hell waits until a con to get their 3P figures? If I want Feral Rex or Hexatron or the FP Dinobots or whatever, I'll preorder them. Popular third party figures sell out quickly and the aftermarket value skyrockets. If it wasn't worth preordering, it probably wasn't that important to your collection.

3) There are TONS of other cons you could get this stuff at. Comic Cons big and small. Toy conventions. Some comic/toy shops. General pop culture conventions. Transformer specific conventions, like TFCon. I could go on.

It really seems like the only real outrage here is that this is a sign Hasbro is getting serious about 3P again. Hasbro never really went after them and I think that all of the hardcore 3P defenders have that fear in the back of their head that Hasbro could bring this all crashing down if they decided to sic their army of corporate lawyers on MMC, FP, MT, TFC, etc... So the hardcore defenders are raging about insignificant nonsense (this story) in some kind of meaningless proxy battle over the future of 3P items.

I own a lot of third party stuff. Some of it I like better than Hasbro (My yellow Giant over Gen Dev, my IGear Raptors over classics and the upcoming leader seekers). Some of them I prefer the official stuff (I sold FP Menasor and prefer CW Menasor, sold Defender and prefer Gen Springer,etc...). I like my 3P stuff, but I would understand why it had to happen if Hasbro struck. I guess I'm just not as obsessed as some.

 

Fully agreed ip infregment has go to far with in tf comunity

 

Here is where we disagree.

Everything has open-sided hollow limbs now.
The entire CW line shares one basic transformation scheme.
Paint is woefully sparse.

 

The notion of protections is moot. The 3P designers exist in a country where IP protection is much weaker than the United States and injection molding machines are easy to come by. It would be a waste of effort and money to go after X-Fan Transforming Robot Toy or whatever they're calling themselves this week.

 

This!

 

Here's a question to stir the pot.

With this year's box set, we know that the Pretender Shell for Oilmaster is an officially licensed 3rd party figure, since it wasn't made by Hasbro.

Why is Hasbro willing to license a pretender shell to a 3rd party manufacturer, but not actual Transforming robots, especially for a collector-orientated box set?

 

I think a lot of people are confused in thinking that understanding the situation automatically means liking it.

I totally understand that Hastak has budget constraints, etc, but I don't have to like nor accept the final product. 3rd party doesn't even have to come into play here. I don't like CW Prime. Not even counting Orion or whatever 3rd party Prime, I still wouldn't get CW Prime.

 

There are a few problems with going after 3P legally:
1) 99% are based in another country, so USA IP laws do not apply. It's really a matter for Interpol, and I imagine that would be a lengthy, expensive investigation and judgment for Hasbro. Not to mention a lot of countries operate on the "you get what you pay for" justice system!   So it may be that Hasbro simply does not want to spend the millions at this point in time.

2) 3Ps are careful not to directly infringe. You don't see "Ironhide by MakeToys" for example. They have different names: a perfectly legal workaround when making a competing product. Your next legal point would be to say that the likeness of a character is stolen, but even here you can go either way on the topic. How much similarity is considered infringement versus homage/common-use, not-specific-enough-to-be-patented. For example, I could make a toy that LOOKS like Ironhide ("SteelButt") but has a completely different transformation scheme from Hasbro toys: is that infringement? What if the head has a different crest? Can Hasbro legally claim rights to ALL ROBOTS THAT TRANSFORM? No. (And in general, if you look at other industries - such as comic books - you'll see a lot of characters are "infringed upon" all the time, with absolutely no legal battle. I hate to say it, but Hasbro would know that these kinds of "infringements" are inevitable and a cost of doing business.)

Well, except that HASBRO DOES NOT RUN BOTCON. So it's not REALLY the Nintendo store, is it?   And bootleg DS's is not the same as 3Ps, which include ORIGINAL DESIGNS that arguably improve the original it's based on. If you saw a "bootleg" 3DS with better 3D, sound, and overall presentation, could you call it a bootleg? Even if the technical specs are different/improved? I mean, you can go to court and test your legal might/luck, but if it was as clear as some of you claim it was, Hasbro would have already won, and the 3P scene would be dead.

Yeah, and Japan has the fan manga's, too. But then I'm reminded of how they forbid used video games to be sold, so... it's messed up over there. A lot of what they do is quasi-legal (i.e. the censor bars in their eroge to satisfy obscure morality laws).

 

While all of you argue about this, i'll be in the parking lot in the black van with no windows selling 3p figs. Knock on the back door twice. The password is "Hasbrocansuckit"

 

Probably because anything licensed would have to pass all the US product safety tests and regulations to be approved...which quite a few of the ones we love would fail due to sharp edges / points...and I really don't want to see the results of a series of Ferral Rex drop tests

 

Yes, I didn't really mean it as a direct parallel. I was a musician for about a decade, we self produced our own album. I know what it's like to balance work/life/practice/shows. But there are some big artists who give their music away for free or do have that view on downloading music. I was just generalizing it.

Pirating music doesn't always mean that person will buy that album or any others they put out (albeit still quite possible). Buying a 3P product doesn't mean you won't buy a HasTak product. Most are buying 3P because they love the IP and there isn't something comparable by HasTak. If that Kiss styled band put out an album of originals that was pretty darn good, the Kiss fan might buy it. Doesn't mean they won't buy a new real Kiss album.

What about us in the middle ground?  

 

"I'll take a Crackamus Prime and a Methatron. I need my fix!" LOL

 

We buy what we like and want regardless of the rage?