So they are basically like us. We can also be what we want. Because fuck society  

 

Aliens

 

Aliens. Don't really like to view them as 'machines' beyond well...look.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. Sentient mechanical robots from another planet.

I assume RNA and robo-hormones were thought up as a way to make cybertronians more like alien organisms, but I think those concepts do the exact opposite and make them more human than alien. Any more human and they'll have stuff behind their crotchplates, which I really don't want to see canonized.

 

Both. "Alien" is used to describe something unfamiliar, and in our society, it's mostly used to describe extra-terrestrial beings. Which the Transformers are, to us, just as we them.

As for the machine bit, they are machines, moving mechanical things. So to us, they're alien machines. Especially since there's so much we don't understand about them in most continuities. Also, quoting from Prime Ratchet isn't really too fair, since he's just from one continuity, and the same certainly doesn't apply to every continuity.

I've usually tried to call them "Cybertronians", or specific titles, like Autobots, Decepticons, Velocitronians, etc. But "Transformers" occasionally slips into my diction.

 

both?

 

The thing is, Cybertronians, even when depicted as much more robotic, are still essentially human. They look like humans, they behave like humans, they have societies, morals, religions and attitudes like humans. It's a common trait throughout all of sci-fi, to have alien races be essentially like humans or an exaggerated trait of humans. They'll say spark instead of heart, they'll wonder if someone's sprung a leak if they cry, they don't know what a mum is, but such details aside, they are pretty much humans. It's much easier to base a society off of the one we know ourselves than to construct an entirely new one, and it's much easier to relate to things that act like we do.

If I recall, doesn't one continuity feature Shockwave as having been once much more human like in appearance, but his current appearance was forced onto him as a punishment? They removed his 'human' features, the human-like face and hands, his emotions, and replaced them with 'inhuman' features, the single eye and the emotionless nature. You'd have thought aliens wouldn't give a crap, but nope, the removal of the features associated as human-like is what makes Shockwave an outcast.

Makes sense, really. It's hard to depict a truly alien society that doesn't, you know, alienate viewers. Making them human-like is just more convenient.

Too late, Hot Shot. Too late.

 

Both would work but I went with Aliens

 

That's a hell of a loaded opening post.

They're both alien and machine, because a) they originate from a completely different planet and b) they're mechanical in form (and saying otherwise is just semantics). Not to mention the fiction often plays off on the fact they're robots; i.e. really pushing the violence, regularly changing bodies, etc..
The implication they can't be "persons" because of being machines (much less artificially created ones) is troubling. I mean, you wouldn't dismiss characters like R2-D2, Bender, or Roy Batty as "mere machines", would you? Or Frankenstein's monster, who although is organic is still an artificial creation.

 

The poll really needs a third option.

You realize this isn't actually any different right? You basically described them exactly the same way but using different words that mean the same thing. I get what you're trying to say from reading the rest of your post but what you're trying to say and what you're actually saying are two different things.

You basically just asked are they robot aliens or alien robots. Switching the words around doesn't change what they are. But I think what you actually meant is where do we put the most importance, on the alien aspect or the robot aspect. No matter what they are both but you could stress one as being more important than the other. I personally don't agree with that point of view but I could at least understand the difference in opinions.

This takes me back to how I started this post. I don't view them as being more alien or more robot, they are equally both.

 

Of course they're machines. We're machines too, just have different kinds of material used.

Personally, l think they would find the term robot insulting since robot means slave or something that can't think for itself.

They're aliens, but they're not the same kind of Iifeform as us. But they are also machines, just like us.

 

Both.

 

Both. We are machines made of carbon (clay specifically if you believe in the Bible), and our organs act like well oiled machines. We originate from this planet. We are made of the materials here. Transformers are made of metal not found on Earth. This Cybertronian metal almost acts and behaves like skin to them. Their organs allow them to do things that we find fantastic, like transforming. The various takes of the fiction stretch how far they can go with certain things, but when it boils down to it, they are alien robots.

 

Damn it, stop saying things I agree with. I thought we had an agreement to disagree?

As did I. I have always looked at Cybertronians like the Cylons from the original Battlestar Galactica series, but developing a more well-rounded personality ala Sonny from I, Robot. It also lets me reconcile why they would have humanistic forms and characteristics without the need to evolve them. Like facial hair. Or boobs. It also gives them a reason for having crew compartments, which they've had in every iteration of the franchise, except for Beast Wars. The whole biometallic lifeform theory, OR the oganometallic lifeform theory, invalidates too much in the way of established fiction. I don't need them overhumanized. I'm intelligent enough to see things from angles other than my own viewpoints.

 

surprised that there is no joke of voting the wrong choice gets your ass handed by DOTM Sentinel Prime  

 

People are not machines. A machine is defined as something manufactured to do the work of a person. It's artificially made. No one built us. We were grown and born naturally. We could be PART machine... not in the science fiction sense of a cyborg but there are real people with parts they were not naturally born with, that were manufactured to do the work of missing parts. Artificial limbs, being the most common example.

No it doesn't. Again a robot is something manufactured to do the work of a person. It's artificially made. A slave, again is a naturally born, naturally growing, person who does work without pay. And Transformers can't really think for themselves. They pull of the illusion really well but it's pretty obvious that they are just running a program. Take for example the Vehicon Generals. If Tankor, Thrust, and Jetstorm can be so easily reprogrammed into the total opposite of Rhinox, Waspinator, and Silverbolt then they can't really have any free will. Even hypnosis will not allow you to change a person that much from how they are naturally. You might get someone like Rhinox to turn evil but you could never take away his intelligence as was done to make Tankor.

They're not life forms at all... Life forms are capable of natural reproduction. There are many different forms of natural reproduction but building something out of some spare parts you found lying around in a junk yard is not one of them. It's always been shown that Transformers are manufactured in some way. There are a few things that would make me question that but nothing that would really prove anything.

Among the questionable aspects of Transformers being born vs. being built.

Transformers having a concept of family relationships. Depending on what continuity you watch Transformers have either mentioned having families or have no clue what that word even means. Rattrap mentioning that G1 Arcee was his great aunt. Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus being brothers and Alpha Trion being their father. This may in fact just be them referring to their creators as parents rather than actually sharing any genetics which they've never been said to have in the first place. Wheeljack could technically be called the Dinobots' father. Grimlock and the other Dinobots would all be brothers. The Technobots would also all be brothers with Grimlock being their father, the other Dinobots being their uncles, and Wheeljack being their grandfather. BW Dinobot may also be related to them in some way. However other characters, mainly Animated Optimus Prime and RID Fixit not knowing what a dad is. It could be explained by different continuities but could also be explained as those characters not having those specific family members. For example the Technobots might recognize Grimlock as their creator/father but won't know what a mom is considering there was no mother involved in their creation. The Airealbots technically have two fathers and no mother... which has nothing to do with their fathers being gay as there is nothing sexual about their creation. Optimus Prime and Alpha Trion built them so are technically both their fathers.

The next questionable aspect really only applies to the Micheal Bay Transformers. The above issue also applies here as Primes are directly stated to be one entire family. It seems they share a type of genetic code much like humans who share the same last name. There's also the hatchlings from the same movie which imply that they're actually grown. However in Age of Extinction Lockdown directly contradicts this by asking Optimus "Do you think you were born?" and then explaining that he was in fact created. Which of course makes me question how the other Primes can share anything other than a name or how there can be Decepticon Hatchlings. There's also the AllSpark which was said in the first movie to be the only thing that could give life to a machine. So the existence of the Hatchlings already didn't make any sense.

The final questionable aspect of transformers creation only applies to the Aligned Continuity. In both G1 and the Movies it's made pretty clear that something has to be manufactured in order for Vector Sigma/The AllSpark to give life to it. They only produce sparks, they don't build bodies to contain them. However the Covenant of Primus describes it as an almost mystical process... I don't know weather to classify it as being natural or artificial because it's never made clear where their bodies come from. They just emerge from the well of AllSparks. It's sort of like a birth except without parents. They just appear one day from basically nothing. It's never stated that their bodies were built, they just appear. The one thing it does mention is that as Energon supplies were getting lower fewer and fewer cybertronians emerged from the well until they eventually stopped coming at all. Bumblebee was the last Transformer to emerge from the Well. There's also something about the nameless ones that I can't quite remember. Drones like the Vehicons were all created in mass numbers without names while most Cybertronians were created unique. Some times the differences were subtle but they were there. Basically to explain away characters like the Seekers who all share the same mold. Megatron was actually one of the nameless ones. He took the name of a Prime but unlike other named characters he wasn't born with that name. He's also said to be constantly upgrading his body which may explain why he still looks unique despite actually being born as a drone. This whole thing with unique transformers vs. drones is very unclear. It could very well be explained some how, nothing really contradicting here, but still the explanations are so vague as that the only way I can define it is magic. I can't really say that they're created or born with absolute certainty without understanding what exactly the Well of the AllSparks does to produce new Cybertronians.

For the most part they do seem to be built... minor inconsistencies aside.

 

Autonomous robotic organisms.

- Autonomous for free thinking.

Decepticons, Autobots, NAILS, religion, soul and feelings.

- Robotic because... they are.

Always have been.

- Organisms because they are a form of life.

Vector sigma, Primus, Unicron and the Allspark give life.

Regardless of being built or born, they're all granted life.

 

True...for mechanical machines. We're organic machines tho, but the functions are similar. "A device consisting of fixed and moving parts that modifies mechanical energy and transmits it to a more useful form." Sounds like a human body to me, as well as any other body. We're all machines.

Yes, they can think for themselves...that's kind of the point of them. If they were just running a program, then they wouldn't have survived as long as they have. And they didn't take away his intelligence so much as his mind was surpressed, as once that suppression was gone, he had his intelligence again. Same for the other two, their actual minds were being surpressed but were still there.

The definition of life form is constantly changing as we learn more, as currently our definition is based on what's here on Earth. That's why viruses are constantly debated as to whether they're alive or not because they don't reproduce themselves. Cybertronians, even if manufactured, are following a lot of the same rules we do, such as surviving and increasing their numbers to keep the species going. They're alive, and it's life that works on their planet, even tho it wouldn't work on ours, just as life on our planet wouldn't work on theirs. They started in a completely different environment, so it'd be natural they would be different than us on how they survive.

I can agree with this, and usually it's how I see it. Bodies are built, with sparks placed in the bodies. I think IDW's take on the matter is probably one of the better ones we've gotten.

 

why not both¿

 

Are we cells or people????