I see my posts made it out unscathed.

Self five!

At the end of AoE, he literally goes off to punch god.

He is the ultimate myopic power fantasy.

EDIT: Ah, no self five...

 

But that story was taken from G1. The Autobots often fought with their creators and Optimus himself defied them in Dark Awakening.

 

Yes, but in AoE, it illustrates the character's myopia perfectly. He's like something pulled out of a disaffected teenager's notebook.

 

Eh, not going to argue with that. While I personally don't have a problem with how he's portrayed in AOE by itself, when combined with ROTF and DOTM...

 

I feel like movie Optimus is more of a Rambo than a Steve Rogers or Clark Kent. No qualms with killing, but tortured and depressed from his war experiences and capable of brutality against foes far worse than he will ever be. He's practically got PTSD.

 

Pissed
Transfomer
Shooting
Disorder

 

Optimus is reacting to his circumstances: you have here a robot that has been fighting the same war for millions of years, and on top of that, he believes to have been born from the Allspark. Now, a price is on his head by beings who proclaim to be his creators, and sent a bounty hunter to collect.

Now if it were you, and you were told that everything you believed was a lie by the bounty hunter tying you up and destroying your friends, would you in turn let him? Would you willingly comply while your friends are murdered and a tactical nuke-esque weapon kills millions of lives on the planet you swore to protect? Or would you not beat that punk Lockdown's ass and jet pack away into space to seek these beings out to get answers?

 

Rambo is treated as a tragic figure in all the good Rambo movies.

Optimus Prime's violence is considered positive. It's intended to get the audience pumped up.

 

"Creators" does not equate to "god."

Dr. Noonien Soong is Data and Lore's creator and neither of them consider him a "god" as opposed to a "father like figure."

 

Except they created the whole of the Cybertronian race. So they're closer to gods. And either way, he's going off to rebel against his paternal figures. You know, that juvenile phase that everyone goes through.

So he's officially graduated from illustrating the most myopic of adolescent views about society and the nature of good and evil, to the most myopic of adolescent views about the ruler-subject/god-mortal/father-son relationship.

He IS a power fantasy. I'm not saying that anyone's turning him into that (save for Bay/Kruger), I'm saying that people are indulging in it and trying to justify it as more than that.

 

Optimus is reacting to his circumstances: you have here a robot that has been fighting the same war for millions of years, and on top of that, he believes to have been born from the Allspark. Now, a price is on his head by beings who proclaim to be his creators, and sent a bounty hunter to collect.

Now if it were you, and you were told that everything you believed was a lie by the bounty hunter tying you up and destroying your friends, would you in turn let him? Would you willingly comply while your friends are murdered and a tactical nuke-esque weapon kills millions of lives on the planet you swore to protect? Or would you not beat that punk Lockdown's ass and jet pack away into space to seek these beings out to get answers?

Its not about representing "power fantasies," etc...its about actions and reactions.

 

Have you noticed we keep explaining that we see it a different way and that we don't agree with your opinion? You don't win any merit badges for "winning" a discussion or proving our "opinions" wrong.

Also, hey! No where does it say in AoE the creators created all Cybertrons. It was only stated Optimus was. Optimus also says at the very end "I am Optimus Prime, this is a message to *my* creators. Leave planet Earth alone, because I am coming for you."

So, based on that, there is no "table to turn on you" because I'm not trying to win anything. I'm not out to prove how right I am on some internet forum, but if I do, it occasionally helps to have actual quotes and statements used in the movie to back up my "opinion."

Like, you know, above.

 

Did any of you pay attention to Smashs post not even a dozen posts ago?

Cut out the juvenile name calling nonsense. Any more and there will be thread bans and infractions with immediate effect. No more warnings.

 

A lot of heroes have done a more gruesome and callous things, and retained the moniker of hero. So what the heck.

 

I'm not, and have never tried to "win" a discussion. I've just tried to have them.

And with that, I'm out. I'm not getting in any more trouble over this thread. It's not worth it.

 

I'm surprised this particular battle still wages on after this many years. This Optimus Prime is purely a reflection of the circumstances we live in today. He isn't an idealistic, unrealistic hero of the 80's anymore, where the good guys walked a straight line and innocents were unharmed.

Now, the line between good and evil is blurred, as Optimus' actions could be construed as more menacing or unethical than anything Megatron has done in the movies. However, again, those are the realities of the times we live in, heroes have to jump boundaries to solve problems. Anyone want a good read?

Company Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Company-Man-Thirty-Controversy-Crisis/dp/1451673949/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413345546&sr=8-1&keywords=Company+man

It goes into the ethical challenges of protecting a nation and its citizens. Waterboarding, interrogations, etc.... great read! Bringing it back to Optimus, do I like this new version of him? Certainly not! However, it is an accurate portrayal of the decisions made every day by the people who protect this country.

And... I hope that is not political because I don't want it to be.

 

Well said man  

 

Dammit, I've got to jump back in here.

There was NEVER a time in history where "heroes walked in a straight line and innocents were unharmed". It never existed. And, even pretending there was, the '80s were hardly America at it's best, and the fiction reflected that. Consider how dark and "punk" so much of pop culture was, how the rise of the antihero came about in both film and comics, how Dirty Harry and Clint Eastwood in general became the rule, not the exception. People were dissatisfied with the government, with the media, with everything.

And yet, Optimus Prime came about in that era.

And Superman was released while people were still dealing with the devastating effects of the depression, only to do amazingly well overseas, along with many other superhero comics, after the war broke out.

And James Bond came about, telling tales of culture and refinement, as Britain was still reeling from the destruction and economic turmoil reaped by WWII.

There always was, and always will be, a place for a paragon. For someone who stands head and shoulders over the troubles of their era and transcends them, because they're better than them. Because they stand for something greater. That's what Superman is. That's what Captain America is. That's what (to a lesser extent) Bond is. That's what Errol Flynn's Robin Hood is.

And that's what Optimus Prime was always intended to be. Dick Donner's Superman, not Frank Miller's Batman. A paragon, not a revenge driven power fantasy.