I get you too, bro! I guess if someone else made the next film it would be refreshing, but it would be cool if Bay and the new director teamed up for the last film! Bay handles action, and New guy handles the rest.

 

Bay or nay, that's how I feel.

 

Art is subjective. One man forms an opinion of it and it's supposed to be something everyone else agrees on? That's boring.

If you want to let someone else think for you, then by all means. It's not like Transformers in any capacity is trying to be Beethoven anyways.

Some people can appreciate "art" for what it is, instead of what it isn't.

If you wish that people would be more "up in arms" about this, perhaps it's you and the minority that has the problem? That's not to say the movies don't have their problems, but don't try to get me "up in arms" when I go to a movie to have fun and enjoy myself, instead of listening to Beethoven and finding myself falling asleep from boredom.

"Art", despite how good it is, isn't always entertaining. That's the draw of the movies for most, they're entertaining.

 

I'm not wrong.
I believe much of it.
will be an unprecedented film, a movie ever seen in the cinema
is more than obvious that a good and true transformers film will be much spoken positively of these films.
and people will watch and recommend more times.
if avengers can do the box office that made, and avengers AOU can do much more, can overcome 2 billion, because a good and true transformers film can not?

a good movie about transformers with their characters, story, plot, mythology, elements, technology, character development and other things that the universe can offer,
can make more money and attract more people to the franchise than previous films made ​​or any other movie franchises.
transformers that interact between them, use their abilities in robot form or any other form, piloting vehicles and other things they can do.
this is not something hard to do.
with a good director, writer and editors.
with good development, production and post production.
good marketing with all your characters Tf posters, trailers, TV spots, clips and other types of advertisements, transformers may be more than you can imagine.
is more than logical.

 

That's something that would also work, and I would have no problem with whatsoever. Have Bay handle everything concerning action, while coordinating with the other director, and then keep him as far away from everything else. I don't hate on Bay 100%. The man has an eye for carnage and chaos and destruction, no doubt. I give credit where it's due. I have actually noticed, that having someone else to reign the other might be a good thing. If a movie has two directors, and one might have a stupid idea, the other can call it to his/her attention. Same thing for multiple writers. Since you brought up the Hobbit, I'll use that. I think they're written by 3 or 4 writers, so if one has any stupid ideas, the others can be cut it at the root. Since DOTM and AOE were just Bay and Kruhger, they had no one to tighten the leash on them. I really think having a co-directed movie would work, though Bay being as egotistical as he is, I can't say he'd be happy  . Of course, if all parties involved have stupid ideas, then it's kind of a moot point.  

 

Avengers didn't make 2 billion, it made 1.5 billion. And AoE just broke 1 billion and still has yet to be released in other countries. If it doesn't break 1.5 billion, it will be awfully close.

 

Haha exactly, bro! Although a co director is a great idea, we both know it won't happen, so it might just be Bay...which I won't have a problem with honestly, it's just the writer I want gone haha

 

Did I say that art wasn't subjective? No. I said it is subjective up to a certain degree. You missed my point. If we're going to use my Beethoven metaphor still, it's fine if Beethoven bores you and you don't enjoy it. Everyone has different tastes. But if you had said that his music is bad, then there is clear line of distinction there between liking/not liking something, and the reality of the actual quality. Are you going to tell me that a canvas with three lines is better than Van Goh's Starry Night, or Da Vinci's Mona Lisa? The same principles apply. If you like the painting with 3 lines more, that's fine and dandy. Good for you that you enjoy. But to say that it is better is just a matter of twisted perception because the Mona Lisa is a better painting.

 

Yeah, even that would improve the movies exponentially. I mean, Bay has made good movies in the past. As long as Bay gets to have fun with his action scenes, I think he wouldn't if a writer began incorporating more story elements.

 

Oh I got your point.

I feel that the problem is you're using two extremes to make your point. I wouldn't like "3 lines" compared to... Mona Lisa or Starry Night, but I find both of them not as great as Munch's "The Scream." Just because something is lauded as good or a masterpiece, like Beethoven, doesn't mean I have to agree and I can in fact find them quite "bad."

The quality of a work of art is still something that is found in the eye of the beholder. Is it something I can respect for being original or unique, ahead of it's time and still not like it, absolutely.

And I think that degree stops when it comes to summer blockbusters that are meant to be fun.

What would be a Beethoven to you as far as a movie goes in line to the Lil Wayne/Transformers comparison?

 

And that's the big problem. Art is neither better or worse. If an elephant creates a painting it is not worse than the Mona Lisa. Its just appreciated differently. Some of the members talk about film school, film composition, etc. I have two Bachelor's degrees in management and marketing. You know what they mean in the real world? Nothing. I'm judged based on my current production and results. Just like movies. The artsiest of all movies may be a hit with critics but it may not resonate with the ticket buying public. Movie making is an art form that is appreciated in different ways. Are Bay's movies perfect, nope. Could they be worse? Most definitely. But to day in and day out, over and over post about how these films are the abomination of humanity and anyone who likes them is a bottom feeding lifeform is a joke.

 

The problem with your point about summer blockbusters is the stereotype. Just because it comes out during the summer and is a big and action packed film doesn't mean it has to have bad writing and acting, and just be "fun." I agree with about beauty being in the eye of the beholder. This is true, and everyone creates their own reality, and perceives thing differently. However, you say the degree stops when it comes to summer blockbusters that are meant to be fun. What about Guardians of the Galaxy? That movie has witty dialogue, well developed characters, good acting, AND action to boot. It was a fun a movie. What about Winter Soldier? That was an intelligent film with political undertones that had great writing, acting, AND action. It was a fun movie. Both these films have high scores from critics, AND were beloved by the audience. Winter Soldier did well financially, and predictions say so will Guardians. I could name a bunch of other summer blockbusters that were "fun," but were also good films AND made great returns at the box office: The Dark Knight, X-Men: DOFP, Dawn of the Apes, Godzilla, Inception, Iron Man 1, Spider-Man 2, etc. These were all summer blockbusters. Were they fun to watch just like Transformers? Yes. Did they have great action just like Transformers? Yes. Did they make lots of money at the box office just like Transformers? Yes. Did they have wooden characters, and piss-poor dialogue? No, they did not. If you think they did, well then we can't keep arguing because this will just keep going circles. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. I was wrong and you were right.

Edit: As for what movies I consider to be Beethoven versus Lil Wayne/Transformers: Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Unforgiven, LotR trilogy, Lawrence of Arabia. Most people would call me some old fart for liking those, but I love them. They're good films, and stand the test of time despite their age (except for LotR and Unforgiven which aren't that old.) There are more, but the list would go on and on, so I gave you 5. Granted, they aren't my top 5 movies of all time (except for Unforgiven), but they are the Beethoven to Transformers' Lil Wayne.

 

Bad writing and acting to you. While I think Tessa's acting in AoE was pretty bad, I can follow the writing and it tells the story. It's not the best writing by any means, but I don't need it to be. And I know that there are other movies that have better writing and acting that are also fun, but if I had fun then there isn't much of a problem for me. I don't need it to be something it's not, which is why I don't really get the art analogy.

But see, you had fun at that movie. To you, it's fine as is. To me, Transformers was fun and is fine as is. If I don't enjoy Guardians, I wouldn't expect you to get up in arms about how I feel.

Someone suggested on this very forum that they wished that Transformers followed the Marvel method in having a movie that's a "spotlight" of sorts for each character, like Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, but do that for say Optimus, Jazz, Hound and then have them all come together in an Avengers style movie. Something like that wouldn't work for Transformers. Even if it could, there is nothing for them outside of the war. There are no alter egos, no real down time to speak of. They can't go run Stark Industries or go eat shawarma together in a restaurant.

I have zero interest in Captain America. I think a super powered soldier who throws a shield as a weapon is just lame. So I won't be seeing it.

Didn't see Dark Knight, DOFP, (though I would like to). Have zero interest in Godzilla, or Apes. Inception was great, I thought Spider-Man 2 was terribad (unless you mean Amazing Spider-Man 2, haven't seen it yet) and RDJ carries the movie with dialogue in any movie he's in, including Avengers, Iron Man and Sherlock Holmes. But that's a testament to his acting.

It's not that I want to keep arguing with you man, because I don't. That's not what I'm saying here. I'm saying there shouldn't be any winners or losers based on what we enjoy. Again, if you loved Guardians and if I don't, I wouldn't expect you to get upset about it or want some sort of change because it would be my opinion.

Think a movie is good, or think it's bad. Your call. But let me have the same call for myself, ya know?

 

I understand how you feel, and I have no quarrel with you. At the end of the day, we're all Transformers fans here. If you love the movie and enjoy it, and have an all out blast with it, then jam on man. I am nobody to make you hate something you love, though that was never my intention. I never had a problem with people liking the movie. I just wish they could see that while it's fun and enjoyable, it's just not good. But I guess some people think it's good, and who am I to tell them otherwise? I apologize if I offended you in anyway, and for sounding like a condescending ass. I can be really stubborn, so again I apologize. I wish I could enjoy them like a lot you guys here on the boards, I really do. There are parts I enjoy, like all of Optimus' Jesus lines like "Freedom is......" or "Fate rarely..." and the robot fights. I just can't enjoy the rest. To each his own.

 

What is good? What is bad? They're just opinions bros! We all think differently with some similarities. Because someone thinks these movies are good, doesn't mean you should harass them...even if you disagree.

Keep the peace bros. Roll out

 

i agree with optimusprime108 100%. bad acting comes from bad directing and writing. look at marky mark in the departed, then look at him in aoe. and if you say aoe is a better movie than departed, i don't know what to tell you. most of bay's movies have bad directing, writing, and acting. he's just a bad director.

 

this. A good movie has different meanings to different people. I don't need transformers to have a grade A story. Critics like shutter island more than transformers. Me and my cousin got so mad at that movie we end up fighting each other. People compare transformers to avengers in terms of character. The characters in that movie had movies of their own to develop their character. All they had to do was put them together and give them a common enemy. I can't really tell you about winter soldier since I don't like capitan America as a character. He is pretty lame to me. Most transformers itterations IMO has almost as many F ups as the movies. Hasbro can't do aligned continuities for shit. To me tf prime didnt know what it wanted to do and it had 65 episodes and a damn movie. Now imagine if tf animated had 65 episodes(oh god that would be awesome). Unicron trilogy was repetitive as hell. Still, I like all of these shows. I just call it like I see it. As for characters G1 fucked this up too by having too many characters. I didn't even know sideswipe was in g1. I like the show no less because of this. I still love G1. The bay movies aren't the best thing ever by any means but it's a hell of a ride with an ok story IMO.

 

I'm pissed Paramount would keep a bad director. Hire Joss Whedon or Sam Raimi

 

Why would they want to get rid of a director who literally makes them billions of dollars?

 

To hire a better one. It's not the director who makes them billions of dollars. It's the brand. Like how people always buy Call of Duty even though they change developers every year