Mr. Bay's Interpretation of Optimus Prime

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by forceflex, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Who cares? The movieverse isn't other continuities.

    Thank goodness.

    We as a 6 billion population have that luxury to discuss.
    In the world of the movieverse, that is a luxury that does not exist.

    I refer to ROTF, and Ravage's capture of the shard to revive Megatron.
    Imagine how much worse it would have been had Megs been alive.

    Now explain to me and everyone else the morality of all that blood that would be on your hands.

    Yeah it does: it's fun to mock the bleeding heart do-gooder in their contempt of the good guys and support for the bad.

    ************

    In deference to South Town kids comparison between soldier Optimus and hero Batman-

    Batman never killed Joker. How much blood is on his hands?
    How has each death caused by Joker an exercise in morality?

    Dare I suggest that at some point that it becomes more moral to put down a rabid dog than to let it continue to maim?

    How many people have to die for any man's ideology?

    *************

    Question:

    Assault weapons are being banned.
    Shotguns are not.

    Might seem like a silly question, but if you had be to be shot by one which would it be?
     
  2. Cth

    Cth Cthulhu

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    Missed this scene?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So, no, the "complex idea" isn't beyond Mr. Bay.

    Besides, in the first film, the enemy ripped Jazz in half, prior to that they ripped out Bumblebee's "vocal cords", etc. And that's only what we saw, imagine this having transpired for millions of years.
     
  3. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    This question is irrelevant. You can ask "Is Optimus' behavior as described above consistent with this continuity?" And I believe the answer is yes. The Decepticons (and those aligned with them) have tried to destroy Earth and then enslave the population/steal resources. Optimus has sworn to defend Earth.

    This is not modern human warfare. This is ancient alien warfare. This concept was even covered in the promotion for the first movie!!! "Our World. Their War." Why can't we assume that Optimus - who has been fighting in this war for thousands of years - might be more knowledgeable of how this particular war is fought and won?

    Because Cybertronians shouldn't be expected to handle things in the exact same manner as humans. Plus, Sentinel killed Ironhide. He had to go.
     
  4. Smashs

    Smashs Internet: Pure Truth Moderator

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    I dunno man, the absurdities of the movie forum are genuinely more entertaining than the fucking creepers in the Prime forum talking about Arcee's perfect robo-tits.
     
  5. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    This. Is. Awesome. Thank you.
     
  6. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? Why should a series of live-action movies be beholden to a Saturday morning cartoon mentality?

    Humans aren't immortal killing machines with computer brains that can keep coming back for millions of years the first chance they get to strike again.

    If these were human characters, of course it would be very different. But they aren't. They're robots. You can't imprison them, because imprisoning is a temporary state for an immortal being.

    Megatron, prior to the events of the first movie, was imprisoned, first in ice and later by humans, for however many years. Thousands? Millions? He woke up and WITHIN SECONDS was killing again. There was no warming up period, there was no disorientation. He came back online and immediately resumed his programming. As if he had only blinked his eyes.

    So what else is there to do, except kill them?

    Example to whom? For what point? Why should Optimus adhere to human custom for the dealing of Cybertronian justice?
     
  7. forceflex

    forceflex Member

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    I am a huge fan of the Transformers. I always have been and always will be. The franchise is full of great characters and great concepts.

    Fan opinions are varied and mostly well-reasoned. Discussions like this are interesting and fun. That said, I must confess I am surprised at the defense of significant parts of two of the worst review movies in the history of film (ROTF and DOTM).

    I look at back at the finale of the first live action film. Optimus expresses what I believe is sadness and regret at the death of Megatron. That’s the Optimus I expect.
     
  8. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    DOTM wasn't all that bad....... It's somewhere in the middle for my 2011 film list for me.
     
  9. BeeOtch217

    BeeOtch217 Ha Ha You're a Mini-Con!

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    Your Animated TV show and it's movie aren't perfect either.
     
  10. MasterZero

    MasterZero Taking a Break

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    Wow, what a thread. I'll throw in my two cents, sure.

    In the beginning of ROTF, Optimus kills a Decepticon who, if expanded universe material is allowed, actually does care about the smaller Cons. Now, just because he cared about them doesn't mean he cared for humans. He ran them over and killed dozens without a care. In return, Optimus shot him in the head.

    Now, could he have taken him prisoner? Yes, but would it have been worth it? How many humans died because of this bot? How many more WOULD die if they attempted to capture him (he would not doubt struggle)? Where would they hold him? How would they ensure he doesn't cause trouble?

    Optimus killed a bot who had hurt and killed many people. I, honestly, like this scene because it has the inklings of a grey and grey conflict. A not-TOO evil Decepticon being killed by Optimus for killing innocent civilians. I don't think he was in the wrong. War is violent, and war ends with a lot of people (or bots) dead.

    Optimus mutilating the faces of his enemies? Mutilation really isn't that bad when you consider the fact that repairing that damage is fairly easy. Megatron was getting his wounds repaired in DOTM. Something VERY important to keep in mind is that, the Cybertronians can survive a lot more than a human can.

    Head blown in half? Arm torn off? Vocal cords ripped out? All survivable. This makes killing the enemy difficult, to say the least. The way Optimus kills most of his enemies is actually pretty good. Brutal, yes, but quick. Destroy the processor or spark. End their pain and let them die.

    He's not torturing them. He's making sure they don't get up again. Someone earlier (and smarter than me) pointed out that the nicest thing to do in a war like this is be that brutal. Crush the enemy until they can't fight back anymore, so the battle can end.

    DOTM is full of Optimus delivering quick deaths to his enemies. Shockwave? Processor ripped out. Megatron? Head ripped off. Sentinel? Processor blown apart. Painful, but quick.

    Also, may I point out something I like? In a world of movie heroes finding a 'third option' or just having another bad guy do the dirty work, its refreshing to see a hero who kills the enemy and doesn't have a 'OH, I'M NOT BETTER THAN HE IS' moment.

    Screw that. Its nice seeing a bot who knows he's on the right side, and the other guy isn't. Wiping out innocent civilians in a city as they try to flee? BAAAD. Wiping out a faction trying to perform planet wide genocide, or worse, slavery? Heck, I'll sharpen your sword for you.

    That's my two cents.
     
  11. MV95

    MV95 @marlinfan1995 Veteran

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    You must be joking. They might not have been the best reviewed, but they are nowhere near some of the worst.

    Did you not notice the sadness and bit of regret when he killed Sentinel? I sure did. Remember when Sentinel told Optimus that he could never make the hard decisions, well he did make a hard decision to kill Sentinel. That's a pretty heavy scene in my opinion and it shows that sometimes the best decision might not seem completely right, but it is still the correct decision in a given situation.
     
  12. MasterZero

    MasterZero Taking a Break

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    1. All adaptations have the right, NAY, the obligation to be original with their interpretation! Animated Optimus was a rookie. Movie Optimus is a brutal warrior. Originality! It always ticks me off when an adaption is too similar to previous works. What's the point then?!

    2. You CAN'T compare human combat to robot combat. For one thing, most Cybertronians have their weapons BUILT into them! That means disarming them could involve surgery or busting up the body parts near their weapons to stop them. Its like if my kidney was a bomb. Are you going to take the time to cut it out and safely transport me to prison while I can blow up whenever I want? No, you'll shoot me in the head. And then I'll be dead.

    Because you killed me. See how that works?

    3. There is some interpretation here. I like to think that maybe, there was some shred of Optimus who pitied Sentinel. Maybe he didn't want him to go through the humiliation of a trial. Shaming the Prime name and all that.

    Maybe he knew they didn't matter and saved everyone time and money by just blowing his brains out.

    Maybe he thought about all the human and Cybertronian life wiped out by Sentinel's action, Ironhide, his close friend, included, and allowed him this moment of revenge.

    While physically, Cybertronians and humans are different, I do believe that we both can feel emotion. Optimus felt one called rage.
     
  13. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    I've said this a few times, but I'll say it again.

    Personally, I think movie Optimus is the wise and compassionate leader he is usually represented as in other universes...or at the very least that's who he used to be.
    I think movie Optimus is an example of a war torn hero, who's on the verge of insanity. He's been around it for so long, that it has almost consumed him. Once Optimus is in a combat situation......well, he gets a little over zealous....I mean let's not kid ourselves here Optimus really gets his blood lust on when it's battle time.
    Where the old Optimus would have given his enemies an opportunity to surrender, the current Optimus is simply compelled to kill.
    That is the Optimus Prime which I see in the movie universe.

    Also think of it this way; The Prime lineage of the movieverse is stained with corruption. The Fallen was a Prime, and he fell into darkness. Sentinel Prime usurped Megatron as leader of the decepticons, how many other Primes have gone?
    Maybe Optimus is next to fall from grace? His violent action certainly indicate that.
     
  14. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    I don't think this about Optimus Prime killing, it's about the brutality of the killings.
    I don't believe many of us have a problem with Optimus killing. As you mentioned, he's done it before in G1. Even Optimus Primal shoved Megatron into the core of Cybertron.
    I think what most people have a problem with is Optimus tearing off enemies faces, and killing unarmed enemies WITHOUT giving them the option of surrendering first.
    Those are very UN-Prime like qualities, and the main cause of this thread.
     
  15. Chopperface

    Chopperface Chadwick Forever

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    ROTF and DOTM are 2/3 (soon to be half) of the movie franchise. We can't exactly talk about just one film and ignore the other two if we're doing an analysis of a major character who appears in all three films. And you're wrong. There are countless, countless films on RT who are less than 10% positive reviews. Countless. They're not Oscar winners but they're far from the worst films ever reviewed.

    And yes. He is clearly saddened at Megatron's first death. Now do you think he didn't have every intention to kill Megatron if he could in that film? He flat out stated killing himself with the Allspark was the last option if he couldn't defeat Megatron. Megatron is a mass murderer who was very clearly not sincere about the truce you mentioned. Of course Optimus will rip his head out with an axe. Megatron just proved that he can rip Sentinel to pieces if he gets the element of surprise and is a hobo with a loaded shotgun. Megatron was expecting Optimus to take the truce - "Who would you be without me, Prime?" And then, we get the second half of probably the best exchange between Optimus and Megatron in all of Transformers: "Time to find out." No way Optimus will let Megatron escape to pull another Chicago and continue to make things worse, and oppress and kill and defame and lie. The perfect words come to mind - "Not this time."


    The Decepticons lost their chance for redemption and forfeited surrender years ago when they apparently killed Sentinel, in Optimus' eyes. The comics expand on this. And every single Decepticon in the films have a massive kill count. They're not getting more chances. As for the brutality of the deaths, taking the head off is the way to kill the body. Plain and simple biology.
     
  16. MasterZero

    MasterZero Taking a Break

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    The definition of unarmed is blurred a bit considering Cybertronians have weapons built in and hidden inside their bodies. Grenades, maces, swords, guns, all of this can be hidden in any part of the body.

    The Fallen was moments away from turning the sun into fuel. I don't exactly blame Optimus for not giving them a chance to surrender. The Fallen had who knows how long to change his mind on this. He was going to wipe out the sun and who knows how much life. He deserved it.

    Besides, judging by how Wheelie reacted, most Cons wouldn't be allowed to accept surrendering. Either die by Megatron, or die by the Autobots.

    At least the Autobots make it painless.

    True, they could try talking to the Cons, but then you risk the civilian lives. And what's fair? Sacrificing the lives of innocent civilians while you try to talk the bad guy down? Or killing the enemy, quick and fast, so they can't hurt anyone else?
     
  17. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    well short answer is, he is clint eastward.
     
  18. Alooulla

    Alooulla Decepticon

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    OP, whilst i agree with everything you say, you won't be thanked by many for bringing this up again.
     
  19. Chopperface

    Chopperface Chadwick Forever

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    "This fool is terribly misinformed." - Ratchet

    "Whatever the Decepticons are after, this is just the start."
    "Look, there is no negotiating with them!" - Graham and Lennox.
     
  20. Honorbound

    Honorbound Taking a break.

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    Can I just say, thank you for this post, especially the bolded part. That kind of moral conviction and clarity is refreshing. I sometimes wonder if a lot of the people who say "we must prove ourselves better than the evildoer" are trying to prove it to themselves.