I'm all for respecting the G1 roots of the Transformers, but to allow the mythos and wider franchise to be tied down by it would ultimately only do the franchise a disservice. Slavish commitment to keeping things G1 would only limit growth and innovation.

I want to see new takes on characters. I want to see them grow and change, like Rodimus going from a daredevil loner who is afraid to command his own team to an ego-centric leader. And I'm also looking forward to his eventual downfall where he has to work that stripper poll hard for energon shards.

The expanded origin stories for Megatron, Shockwave and Ultra Magnus have made them easier to relate to and in my opinion added new background for these characters to be used in any future iterations of the franchise.

IDW are avoiding a lot of the pitfalls that many of the bigger comics fall into by having to always maintain the status quo. Characters never stay dead, and motivations rarely change.

As for the new designs for characters, most of them are in non-earth modes, so I'm happy to see them having quirkier designs like Chromedome's massive wheels. I do agree Red Alerts re-design was a little jarring, but I've gotten used to it. Metalhawk also looked a bit mental.

 

Thanks for your reply, starfish. I actually had very long reply ready, but I decided not to go through with it. To summarize what I was going to explain: I just feel there are very stubborn, obstinate fans in our fandom, who judge Transformers (fiction/toys/ etc.) 'great' or 'terrible' based on what others feel are very dismissable details.

The comparison to Batman is a great one, but not really valid here. There are only two versions of Transformers that really break the 'mold' in the same way 60s Batman does for Batman, and those are Animated and Rescue Bots - and in fact, Animated had comics...at IDW.

So no, I don't think people 'quitting IDW' was never about wanting something so radically different, and should be found in the smaller details.

Am I castigating people? Perhaps I am. I'm not without 'fault', and there are definitely parts of Transformers that I think are poor. At least I always try to explain in length, and I do try to keep an open mind. From what I've seen from people casting off IDW, it never really gets much further than either 'the characters aren't exactly like I imagined them in my head' and/or 'Transformers drawn slightly cartoony make me feel uneasy'.

The irony here is probably that I come across as really stubborn myself, judging these people.   But to be honest, I've been on these boards for quite some years now, and I'm just getting more and more sick of the stubborn and ignorant mentality. I see a similar frustration in some other people, too - some people I remember as very calm and friendly I now see lashing out more and more often.

Thanks for your reply to me. Let me say straight away that I highly disagree with most of your post (and I'll go and dissect and counter-argument it in a second   ), I do appreciate the time taken to go into lengths why you feel that way.

Also, let me make clear that I am in not here to ban or ostracize all opinions that don't reflect my own - and whatever I say should be of no concern to anyone. Just do what you want to do, read what you want to read (or not). There will be parts in my reply where I might come off as a big, condescending jerk. I can assure you that's not the case, but you have every right to view and treat me as such - after all, these are my words I've written down.

Still, I've read your post and I cannot agree with your mindset, and feel your approach is definitely very stubborn, unfair even.

This is the part where I DO agree with you: I think ReGeneration One, Autocracy and Monstrosity are terrible.
The reason I still included them in my line-up is simple: RID, MTMTE and the Spotlights on their own are of such quality that they pretty much carry IDW's Transformers weight on their shoulders: these are the 'main' books, and in theory should offer a fan everything they need - MTMTE is my favorite, and I think it's tons better than RID, but I can understand that there will always be people who don't like that book's approach: for them, the more straightforward RID would be better pick, where the A-list characters and action that might resonate with their taste better.

But even then there are people who simply can't get into these books. Now, this is the part where I'm already beginning to scratch my head, because I believe with two very different Transformers titles, any fan should be able to enjoy them (or at least one of the two), to some degree.
The fact that it's not happening means that some people are not really looking for high-quality books, but rather something that reminds them of the books/show/toys of old. That's where the blunt, 86-movie lines laden Autocracy comes in. Or ReGeneration One, where there's Grimlock, and Galvatron and Ultra Magnus, and Megatron conquering and destroying Earth, exactly what a child of the 80s would deem 'mature', and write if they'd ever had the chance to write a G1 season episode.

ReGeneration One and the digital mini-comics are IDW's safety net, so that when even if you somehow can't enjoy/accept the main books, there is *something* to your liking. Even if I think that it's a damn shame people are missing out on cool comics because of absolute trivial objections - but again, if a person feels that way, then so be it.

This is the absolute worst and misguided statement that's out there, right after 'Michael Bay ruined my childhood'. I'm sorry, how can one ever say something like that?

IDW is most definitely, clearly Transformers - in fact, it's modeled after what many (older) fans still feel is the most important (or only?) Transformers: Generation 1. Lately there have been bits of other continuities dripping into the books, so maybe it's slowly going towards a 'Generations' universe, but no one can ever say this is not Transformers.

How is IDW Transformers in name only, when it features exactly those Transformers characters that 'matter' to people? Even the first generation of Transformers had two currents: the cartoon and the comic - and often portrayals of characters varied wildly between these two. These both get a pass, but IDW is somehow 'not Transformers'?  

I don't actually read the New 52, and from what I have read and seen, it's quite terrible.
Still, I know that most of the characters in IDW are not so heavily changed as you describe Superman has been. Yes, certain characters like Overlord or Star Saber are completely different, but also a lot of them are just the same as they were back in G1 - and then there are some whose portayal has changed over the years into something different. Ratchet, for example, is now commonly seen as a slightly older, disgruntled but caring medic (much like Star Trek's McCoy), even if he was supposedly the young, party-loving cool-hand lube back in the 80s.

Transformers hasn't stopped moving since its creation, and to keep comparing all characters to the way they were in one out of two (!) portrayals that you decided to go accept as truth...well, it's silly.

Yes, they are. The Japanese Transformers have definitely been used as blank slates, as most people (even the 'old' fans) don't really remember these characters.
Sucks if these happened to be your favorite characters, I guess.

So how about Shockwave? He was a very powerful, ambitious schemer in the Marvel comic, yet he was nothing more than Cybertron's caretaker in the cartoon.
Ratbat was a sentient being who actually took control of the Cons at one point in the Marvel comic, yet he was just a beast in the cartoon.
The Dinobots were dumb cavemen in the cartoon, but genuine, intelligent, Cybertron-born Transfomers in the comics.

It's nothing new, and it's extremely hypocrite to suddenly deem it an issue now that IDW does it. Besides, even when IDW does drastically change some characters, they also blend characters' previous versions into one coherent wholes, like they're doing with Shockwave and Soundwave. And yes, sometimes they do something new completely, or add to an existing figure that only enriches the characters.

Wow. Could you be any more specific?

You also failed to notice that Red Alert isn't suicidal. He took off his own head to hide the secret of Overlord, because he's super paranoid, but even in the comic itself the characters note how the head was taken off in a way that explicitly does not kill him.

You also failed to notice that, pre-MTMTE, Red Alert looked exactly like his G1 version: a red and white version of Sideswipe. BORING.

Even if Red Alert changed his look, he still has many of the cues that make him Red Alert (the colors, the character, the rocket launcher on his shoulder). I find it awful that it's apparently such a big deal to you.  

So, what should we get? Note, this is a character that has only had minor appearances in comics pre-IDW, and appeared...once, in the cartoon?

This character is nowhere near the status of guys like Optimus Prime, giving leeway to interpret him in a different way. Should characters always follow their G1 bio card? I know SMOG would want to slap me for that, but I say no - in fact, many Transformers that appeared in the comics and cartoons deliberately chose to ignore those bios in the first place, and some have turned into lasting characters that have nothing to do with those bios anymore.

What exactly do you mean with 'funny'? Is he (and Tailgate) drawn strange to you? Is he too 'cartoony'? Is he not boxy enough?

Again, Swerve was a complete nobody before MTMTE. He was Hasbro's favorite go-to guy whenever they need to slap a name onto a new Autobot car.

And note how he was working as a metallurgist on Kimia pre-MTMTE, and actually did something useful as a metallurgist in the latest issue. Poor Swerve, all he wanted after the war was to settle down and open a bar, but I guess he should be constrained to do that one vague thing nobody remembers him for for all eternity.  

He's not a drunk. If there is one drunk aboard the Lost Light it's Trailbreaker. Wait, how come you don't mention him?

He drinks just as much/little as most other characters, expect maybe for that one time where he lost the love of his life?

Ok, now you're just rambling. This is not an argument, and it makes no sense.

I'm a real boy!

Magnus has one of those love-it or hate-it portrayals. I understand that people don't like he's 'just' an armor (although most of Magnus we've read in IDW is actually the same guy in the suit, so technically he still is a character we've known for a while?).

If it's any consolation, there IS a true Ultra Magnus, but he's long dead. Or is that somehow a problem a well?

Then that's a serious fault on your end, not the books. There was a point in time where you gladly accepted new Transformers into your life - I reckon it was the first time you found out about Transformers. So, did you just stop accepting new guys to the roster halfway through or something?

Drift didn't start out that great (actually, his look, character and altmode fit in quite nicely with the rest of the Autobots - the main problem is with how aggressive IDW advertised him when he was new, they were really trying to make him look like IDW's Wolverine), but under Roberts' writing he's quickly turned into another fan-favorite.
Rung, the DJD...these are all great additions, and there's a reason people have responded so positive to them. They provide a fresh angle, but still blend in so nicely with the rest. How different it would have been if these characters had been introduced back in the day, with accompanying toys. You would not have minded their appearances.

I'm actually having a hard time believing that now that I've gone through your post. I think you want to like the exact version of Transformers you've carried around with you for years, and you can't get into IDW because you don't accept any version of the formula that's different from what you know.
You've tried it, and it's not your thing, and you've come into this thread and given me a healthy explanation why you feel that way. I appreciate that...but none of your arguments convince me that there's actual reasons other than, again, just a very stubborn attitude from your end.

In the end, you are you, and you know best what you like, what you feel, what you want. That's not up to me to decide, but I bet my post comes across as somebody desperately trying to shove something down your throat. But don't you think you're being a little bit unfair?




edit: holy shit, Yggdrasil is an angry, angry person! WOW!  

I have to agree with this. It's not true for everyone, but there is a big group of people to which this applies, and I actually know some of these (they're a couple of my best friends! See, we CAN get along!  ).

The 'issue' here, is that, for whatever reason, 80s nostalgia revival reached its first boom, exactly at the point Dreamwave was doing Transformers comics.
There are TONS of casual G1 Transformers fans: people who loved Transformers just as much as you and I did back when we were kids - the only difference is that they completely dropped the franchise when they grew up.
What happens next is that, although the brand Transformers is growing and changing (adding more and more iterations to the line up, like Beast Wars, A/E/C, etc.), these fans have had next to zero contact with Transformers, and were only remembered of it during that nostalgia boom.

They read the Dreamwave comics - it's everything they ever wanted as kids! But when Dreamwave went bankrupt, these casual fans were gone as quick as they appeared.
A couple years later there's the second nostalgia revival, as all the big Hollywood players have found out nerd franchises make money. Videogames have become more mainstream too...tl;dr: nerd hobbies = money, so that nostalgia is here to stay now. And Transformers gets its own Hollywood movie.

It's another blimp on the casual fan's radar. They come back to Transformers once again...and what do they find? Lots and lots of Transformers stuff that doesn't connect to their views on Transformers, unlike the Dreamwave comic they read a couple years back! So yes, naturally, now everything is 'not Transformers' to them, from the Bay movies, to Transformers Armada to Transformer Animated, to even the IDW comics (this isn't directed towards Transfotaku, by the way, you've not specified this is your problem with IDW!).
I LOVE Generation 1. I DO! But I think there's a very vocal group now (not specifically 'geewunners') that scream and shout they want Transformers to be done 'in this way', or 'that way', which doesn't actually reflect the fanbase as a whole. (if there would ever be something as a unified fandom with a single opinion.. )

The second sad part of this is of course that the comic industry has dwindled in numbers. Sales aren't as high as they used to be 10 years ago...which, sadly, leads some people to believe (fans AND people working in the industry), that indeed, the Dreamwave run was better (because it sold more so obviously this is what everybody want!!1)..which MIGHT influence decisions. Which would SUCK.

So, another win for IDW for starting up two new Transformers ongoings that go into a complete different direction. Hurray!

 

In my defense failing 4 subjects in one day does not do good things for the mood.

I apologize.

 

I'm disappointed you didn't include rewind in your strange conformity hate list that would have been hilarious.

Anyway's the bio's are just a couple of sentences which could never describe a person or character fully and leave plenty of room for abstract interpretation and to build upon. who's to say a transformer like people can't have multiple interests, passions, hobbies, occupations or defining personality traits which change throughout their life

 

The one that makes me sad is "Costa sucked, so I'm done with IDW forever". Of all the times to give up on TF comics, this has to be the WORST. Even the most intense MTMTE/Roberts critics have to agree that what we have now is better than the dreck we were getting a couple of years ago.

"Real" TFs...is that the fictional version of TRUE FANS?   I'm in absolute 100% disagreement though, since I love fresh new original characters. Having a well-developed, interesting and unique writer creation is infinitely better than being forced to bend the story around whatever toy guys Hasbro is hawking this season. IMHO, the less characters are enslaved to some 5-line tech spec bio that some suit in a board meeting spent a whole ten seconds on, the better!

I do agree with you there. This design of Red Alert doesn't work very well. I can't figure out why someone would choose to be rebuilt from a sleek lambo into a form that looks like a chubby guy with a golf hat...but of course that's just my own visual preference talking.

  I'll preorder that issue RIGHT NOW. And there better be a nice double splash.

 

[insert obvious sexual innuendo here]  

I also love the introduction of new characters. The likes of Rung, Tarn, Drift, Turmoil and this continuity's version of Nemesis Prime have all been welcome additions.

 

This!

No one has ever given me a good reason for disliking the IDW stuff. Most reasons boil down to it not being the sunbow cartoon; I'm glad it isnt! I'd be more willing to listen to "their" point of view if they said they didn't like the art, or if they thought the story was dry and boring. but to pretty much say it isn't like the old cartoon, and therefore bad, is a silly argument.

This is you only reasonable argument. I don't like Red-alert's new body either, but he has already been shown in his old body in flashbacks. Paranoia can lead to depression which could potentially lead to suicide. Red alert's actions in the comic aren't completely outside the realm of possibility.

 

I feel like it would totally maul my suspension of disbelief if only Transformers who got toys 1984-1986 got to be important. There are thousands of Cybertronians (millions in the past). And how would the franchise attract talented writers if they were barred from creating new characters, on principle?

 

Am I the only one who actually really liked Red Alert's design?

 

Nope. I thought it worked really well being a new design and still fitting his character.

 

No i like it too. I didn't like it at first because it's not instantly recognisible as Red Alert but after a while I found that he has enought of visual ques from RA to be a very fun redesign of him that is his own thing and not just a Sideswipe with butt ugly colours.

 

I'm very happy with the current state of IDW fiction.
The art and stories are very entertaining. I'm very pleased with the editorial freedom given to the writers and the artists to try new things.

Agree or disagree with the style or events of the comic, it comes down to "How badly do I want to read the next issue." And lately that button is pressed obsessively with every comic.

I also love we get a TF comic about weekly - ReGen, MTMTE, RID, BH, other - and it keeps a nice buzz going for the TF escapist needs I have.

I wish IDW and all the creators, artists and people I forget who make it possible lots of success!

 

Nah. They just reinforced the way I had always perceived them.

 

Yes.
Ha ha, no, just messin'.  

But, in all honesty, my only gripe with Red Alert's redesign is that (So far as I know, anyways) it seems to have come out of nowhere.

If I had seen why he had a redesign or there was a little mention of it, like Starscream into his Armada body (Did Red's redesign happen sometime during Chaos? I haven't read all of that arc), I would have no issue with it. That said, I don't hate the redesign by any means.

This I get. Tailgate previously had an interesting little quirk where he didn't understand that Earth machines weren't sentient. This would be interesting to see...if the storyline were back on Earth. Not being on Earth, this quirk would make zero sense. Given no avenue for his primary personality point, I'd rather he be in the story, having an interesting friendship with Cyclonus (And helping him cast off the stigma of being part of The Dead Universe crew and Galvatron's lieutenant in the process), then not at all.

Which ones? Seriously, could someone name them for me, if they have any idea who specifically he's talking about? I hope he wasn't expecting "The Rebirth"-style Scorponok or something...

On a side note: Perhaps I'm not reading them right, but why does it seem like everyone hates Autocracy and Monstrosity? I don't know, I just have a disconnect between those books and the hatred aimed in their direction. It just doesn't make sense to me...

 

I don't care for all the '86 movie references. Livio art's a plus, but they just feel pretty empty and superficial. They're okay enough reads, but they feel like something outta Dreamwave or a slightly better G1 'toon compared to MTMTE and RID.

Plus they seem to miss out on some story beats that were supposed to happen when they take place. Like, during Monstrosity, that's like the ideal time to show Prowl trying to escape with the neutrals, considering that's a big part of who he's been for the most part in IDW.

 

Okay. There's a set of complaints lodged against them that I understand.

I feel like so many complaints are like the one I quoted in my previous post, with no real explanation behind them. Also, I can get you not caring for the original movie references, your dislike seems reasonable, whilst so many people's reactions to the famous "One shall stand..." quote seemed as one might imagine the reaction if Hasbro had declared the Michael Bay movies to now be the principal TF universe.

 

I think I can consider myself a "hardcore" G1 fan, as I really love the original toys and I have a fondness for the original cartoon.

I can say that I thoroughly enjoy the Roberts' comic.

I also thoroughly enjoy the Beast Wars show as well as many other incarnations of TRANSFORMERS.

I just think this shouldn't be so difficult for others who are fans of X Transformers incarnation to do the same *shrug*