Buyers Beware: FansProject Shadow Commander Knock Off

if its cheaper id buy it

If they make a City Commander KO, I'm sold. I already bought the original, but the torso on mine broke (its alarmingly fragile) and I'd like a replacement :\

I would bet even money that FP are responsible for it. At any rate, as long as there is no quality issue, then this is not too big a deal. I just bought a "real" one that should turn up in the next few days. I had looked at this auction but decided to not trust it. I am thinking now it would have been better to get the one with no holes.

wait no funky ko colors.... puple & black please

I can't believe how many of you people are actually in support of these a**holes! It's one thing if you've got somone doing KO's of Hasbro stuff. Hasbro has it coming and they've been screwing us lately anyway but FP isn't a major corporation and they are in it because they are regular folks like us that actually listen to us and give a damn. Yeah, their stuff is spendy but that's how it goes when you don't have the resources of a multi-billion dollar company to cover everything from design to final production and shipping.
If you promote these KO's then you may as well tell FP and anyone else doing 3rd party custom stuff for us fans to just close up shop go away.
They give us stuff that Hasbro never will and still folks bitch and whine. Shut up and deal or go out to the garage and build it yourself but don't support something that is, in the long run, going to screw all of us out of getting cool custom stuff entirely.

AMEN

FansProject's views about KOs:

moist of the parts ar just mirrord, keep your eyes open

oka yit's a knock off yeah, but not as bad as many of us think, swap some parts and it works.

for fansproject its not good

FP got their money from the retailers on the first round already and I DO think they don't really care about if somebody is "duplicating" their black plastic box.

Only trouble is the paper box for the KO coffin. As long as they keep the www.fanproject.com printed FP will not be too happy about it.

For those KO factories:
Please "KO with common sense, and KO with style."

Where are all the FP supporters from the other thread? Every purchase of a KO FP kit is a kit FP can't sell which hurts revenue for future projects... So all of you who get your KO shadow commander could be the reason FP never releases Rodimus Armor or something like that if it becomes too out of hand.

(these sound like lunchplate specials to me and backdoor FP KOs otherwise we would be seeing all armor variations, especially powered Commander)

For Shadow Commander, and most products on the market, FP has already gotten their profit from the retail stores who bought it. So BBTS and other stores will now have a harder time selling the stock of the real Shadow Commanders to do this KO. This would of been a bigger impact for FP if this KO Shadow Commander came out about the same time as the real one. As for fans, there are those that know about this, and will still buy it, and those unaware thinking its the real deal. This last group will most likely think FP makes crappy products due to the KO and hesitate buying their future products.

This technically competes with any version of City Commander. It is FP's right as a company to not be competed against by anyone using thier own trademarks or molds.

If a single customer who was going to buy Asian release PC that chooses not to for this model, they are damaged. Not to mention of the re-sellers 'sell' less, the next order they place for a FP product will be for 'less' which then hurts FP again. THis is all business 101 that some people really try hard to avoid realizing the possible harm.

And this "they have made their money, so it doesn't harm them", where was the condemnation when KO makers releases KO insecticons at the same time as Reissue insecticons and released KO metroplex BEFORE Reissue metroplex? Do people admit then that they caused real damages or is there still a rationalization that makes it ok?

Firstly, just to state, I don't like KOs. And seeing this Shadow Commander KO saddens me that works by fans are being counterfeit and other fans support it. Though its not surprising as there have been members on this very board who supported recasting City Commander even before it was released. And there was even a thread in Radicons where someone wanted to recast the CJ kit and sell at around $60. What I stated in my previous post was just my thoughts on how I think this KO will affect FansProject, with details I know from them.

For this KO to compete with all version of the "Commander" mold, it depends on the individual fan. I'm sure there are many that want the PC release for what it is, and not the mold. So I doubt they'd get the KO as a substitute. Since the 2nd PC release is being targeted to Asia, there is also enough fans on this side of the pacific to help make it sell out. Their might be those that missed out on City Commander, and didn't want spend money on the real SC, so they planned to get PC. But after seeing this cheaper knockoff, those fans will probably buy it just to fill that hole for the needed mold in their collection. Some might be aware its a KO, and some not.

As far as Shadow Commander's profit goes, this KO affects the retailers profit wise right now. For FP, it will damage their reputation as toy designers and makers if the fans believes the KO is an authentic product by them. This is probably the biggest damage the KO will do to FP, when compared to profit.

In my opinion, for a KO to directly affect FP's profit, which they would need for their next project, they would need to make a big run of a new product, and a KO would have to come out within a month after release. This would affect any stock still left at retailers. And then if they moved very slowly, I could see the retailers ordering less from FP the next time, which would make FP produce less numbers, since demand wouldn't be shown by the retailers.

"FP chose not to be bitter about their work being KO'd." =/= "FP thinks someone KO-ing their hard work is a good idea."

These are two entirely different things. Bitter or not, FansProject's new announcement is a necessary measure to protect the interest of fans who intend to buy a real FP item but instead getting conned into buying a KO. And I commendate FP taking the step with their announcement: http://www.fansproject.com/?p=269

Conspiracy theories make no sense.

1) FP has already updated their Commander moulding with screw holes, to make life much easier for those fans or customisers who like to take apart the pieces easily. It would be VERY costly for them to roll back to a version without screw holes again.

2) When we compare a KO Shadow Commander with a Real City Commander, we can see that the toys are indeed similar. However all the details, like mould lines don't match exactly. The KO Shadow Commander is neither from FP's current Shadow Commander mould nor FP's original City Commander mould. It is simply a well imitated copy made by a third party.

3) If FP intends to make and sell more Shadow Commanders, they would simply continue using the new mould with the screw holes, and will not go through the trouble of making another mould without the screw holes again. They will also not make their own announcement to point out that these are KO. The KO are hurting the real deal. While their announcement is hurting the KO. I seriously don't think they would be so stupid.

4) If the KO are being made by FP's factory without FP's knowledge, I believe the factory workers would make the KO using FP's real moulds which are already there. This is cleary not the case as we already know that the KO Shadow Commander has different mould lines compared to the real deal. The KO is simply a well imitated copy done by a third party.

I have a friend here in Australia who unfortunately purchased multiple KO Shadow Commanders from that ebay seller. He told me the instruction booklets included with the KO have pages out of order.

I don't have a problem with KOs when they aren't passed off as original and they aren't competing with current products. Like all those on that "offer" site that are clearly marked as KOs. However, these guys are hurting FP AND the fans.

Is that mathematics, where a -number multiplied by a -number = +number? Is a KO of a KO an official product?

In all seriousness, I wonder if this is FP way of milking more money out of this thing without pissing off fans, like they did with the re-release of Powered Commander?

This should surprise no one. KO's have been supported by the collector community for some time now (unfortunately). The FansProject items are very popular (and profitable) at the moment so why does this surprise anyone?

I can see a difference in the quality of the plastic's sheen.

So that is why they posted the comparison photos on their webpage to warn off people from buying their "KO" version?

Just another update. I got my refund from ebay on the 15th and only realized it today as there was no email notification.

I also got a response from the seller:

Wow, that makes it even more pathetic on their part. "Please don't buy KO of our product! We are simple fan who make ripoff of Hasbro character without paying royalty! Forgive bad Engrish!"

Don't get me wrong, I love their stuff. But to cry about KO products is a bit hypocritical.

You clearly haven't read this thread fully. FP's statement on their website isn't about asking fans not to buy the KO. They just posted info on how to make sure if you bought a KO or not. They know this is out of their control, so the best they can do is make aware to fans about the differences, so fans don't complain to them about a crappy quality bootleg, which they did not make.

Man, that's some twisted logic you've got there...

If FP did not make their announcement, I'm sure sooner or later someone else will come forward and complain: "Wow, how pathetic that FP doesn't warn fans about these KO of their products out there? How dare they take our money but don't care about others getting conned into buying KO?"

I think FP's announcement was due to the ideas floated out there from the TFCON thread where people who felt FP acted unethically could no longer trust the Shadow Commander kits were actual KOs and not backdoor releases which was a big concern, especially for future FP exclusives.

If this is a way of proving they are not backdoor releasing limited runs, then that is "good" for them as it can clear any doubts people have about them as a company. There are many good points you guys made that would probably mean it is not them doing Backdoor models.

ironic. Isn't Fansproject essentially a knock off of Hasbro/Takara anyway?
I wouldn't be surprised if FPs themselves were the ones manufacturing these "imitations"...or at least sold the molds to someone else.

At the moment, their more like car body kit makers. Their meant for real cars, but are not authorized/licensed by the actual automobile companies. They haven't sold anything that was a recast of a Hasbro toy or parts from it. Even for City/Shadow/Powered Commander, they could of recast the wheels from the Classics Prime mold, but didn't. They changed it so its obviously not a copy, but similar in look.

I think it is so funny how people try to justify ripping off a company cause they are just a big company and "They have been screwing us for so long". If it's wrong to screw over a small company, it's wrong to screw over a big company, there are no shades. Illegal is illegal across the board.

tell me where i can get this !!!!!!!!

i bet it would be cheaper but three times less than the real copy and beside the real one holds no value since it was not made by hasbro and was never in the show

so bring on the clones

The people who made this KO and all sellers who are knowingly trying to pass it off as an official FP Shadow Commander deserve to be

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier in this thread. I was part of a group buy for Shadow Commander on the Cybertron.ca board. It was set up by a very reliable board member, and we thought we were getting a good deal on them since they came out to about $90 CDN a piece. Well, turns out they ended up being the KO's. Hopefully we see some sort of favourable resolution to this, but damn, the whole situation just sucks.

So if I make an entire car that is obviously meant to be a Corvette, including the Corvette logo on the hood, is that legal? FP is basically doing that with Springer, with the head being the equivalent of the "corvette" logo. They are ripping off Hasbro's intellectual properly, and doing it very blatantly. Where is the line that should not be crossed?

i'm in on that deal too, and hoping for some resolution too, the kos should be at least marked as such and in different packaging

the head is different from the copyrighted head, hence why the mini megs guns aren't being released, they are too close to the actual design, and fp is too nervous about legal matters to release them

That example was for their products out already. For Springer, we'll have to wait and see how close the head and the rest of the designs are. They have done their best not to cross the line so far, like not putting trademarked faction symbols on their products, where some groups do. Once Springer is fully revealed, we'll see what happens.

So far, the only thing on the market close to "fan made" figures are the WST figures by Justitoys. But then they are based off official Hasbro figures, and Hasbro hasn't done anything about them.

Well, that analogy isn't ENTIRELY correct. They're releasing a figure of a green and yellow character, without any copyrighted markings, who appears similar to but is in every respect different from anything Hasbro has ever physically produced.

It would be more like releasing an action figure of a well-groomed white male with dark hair wearing a tuxedo and holding a martini glass and a walther, and calling him "Jim." We all know who it's supposed to be, thanks to the visual clues, but since no one actually SAYS it, it's not as easy to prove and frivolous to pursue.

Or by your argument, it would be more like creating a custom crafted car from scratch that is somewhat reminiscent of a corvette styling, so that people look at it and say "That looks LIKE a corvette," except that it is not any official corvette design. And of course, they leave the copyrighted symbols off...

Car companies do this all the time. Hell, HASBRO does this all the time. Look at how many of their transformer alt modes are "Similar to but legally distinct from" real cars or concepts...

Derivative work - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, that is an awesome example! To add to that, ROTF Sideways is an Audi R8 in the movie, but it seems Hasbro didn't get the liscense for the toy, so they made enough changes to get away with a R8 looking altmode for the toy. Everyone who sees the movie will know the Sideways toy is an R8, even if its missing the official badges and some details.

Ok,thats messed up he's using pics of the real thing,then shipping the KO version. Anyway he fooled me too,cause i bought one a week ago. I just thought it was weird that in every one he sold(over 20),every single buyer was happy. I thought KO's are supposed to be bad quality,gaps,bad paint etc. How is the quality of the ones you got from him? I hope they're decent.

I can confirm that the E-bay member Toys-models is selling the knock-offs. I got my Shadow commander last week. When i opened the box everything looked o.k. but since my Nemesis Prime arrived a couple of days later i couldn't try him out. And unfortunately i gave him a positive feedback because i have to say it arrived real fast. When i got my Nemesis Prime and put on the armor it's arms fell straight off and some parts were glued together in a very bad way. Another E-bay member put this knock-off issue under my attention before this article appeared. And the pictures in this article confirm it. I've already contacted E-bay and Paypal and i hope i will see my money back and that this seller will be suspended and put out of bussiness.
If anybody else bought this item from toy-models on E-bay, i suggest you do the same.

I think Phoenix Hobby in Japan is also selling ripped boxes SC.
Dunno if I should post their link here...

I'm in the same situation. My Nemesis Prime wont arrive till well after i recieve my Shadow Commander from Toys-models. Bought it with a low offer(mid $40 range),so i'm hoping the quality is just good enough to get by. I hope,i hope,i hope...

Kyle are you arguing with me? Honestly I didn't even post a viewpoint on this subject, only quoting what FP's stance is on KOs

No, I wasn't arguing with you, only posting my viewpoint on the part you selected to quote.

I guess the difference in quality is much more than only the plastic's sheen? A friend here in Australia also bought from the same ebay seller. His was also flimsy and loose compared to the real deal. And the instruction manual was stapled wrongly with the pages out of order.

I wouldn't be surprised if FP are the ones who've been hiding Osama bin Laden all along... probably helping with production in their factory. It all adds up and makes sense! And now that I've posted this, I'm sure quite a few will believe me.

i actually want this even tho its just a knock off depends on the price if anyone knows where i can get one please tell me i want to see it in person!?

heres the link Shadow Commander Imitation!! | FansProject

This is bad news how? Now I can buy a set for my Ultra Magnus, and still afford to eat that week.