Following the lead of DC Comics and the “new 52”, today IDW Publishing released Transformers 25 electronically through comiXology on the same day as the good old fashioned paper copy through stores. Great news for those without stores near them who want to keep up with their favorite IDW titles on the day of release – especially as we head into the Chaos crossover setting the way for three new series next year – Transformers More than Meets the Eye, Transformers Robots in Disguise, and Autocracy, an electronic only series.
SMOG
My appreciation of his writing ping-pongs back and forth between these two issues. I can forgive great writing that steps out of the box a bit, and weak writing is not exactly something unheard of in TF fiction… but for Costa, his grasp of the canon is weak, and his writing has been poor. I can't really see any grounds to defend the guy or give him any more chances.
See, I wouldn't even consider that to be "making shit up" because it's actually an intuitive progression from Prowl's established persona. He's quiet, methodical, incredibly intelligent, and prefers to sit back and watch things rather than asserting himself. Not only do we see how a "logical" mind like Prowl's weighs moral imperatives, but we also see just how someone like him would feel about the high degree of rampant, irrational bravado that characterizes so much of Autobot identity. It's brilliant because it adds a new layer to Prowl… but it's a layer that makes perfect sense.
Compare that with Costa's inept and ignorant handling of Prowl in his very first issue, and subsequent transparent backpedalling in the Prowl Spotlight issue (otherwise not actually a bad issue). It's like day and night.
I think the key is that Prowls' motivations were not born out of ego, but out of cold logic. The truth is, despite the ethical questions, I found myself totally agreeing with Prowl's perspective on the Autobot mentality, and empathizing with him. I think describing this depiction as "borderline Decepticon" perhaps neglects the fact that his motives are still pure, and essentially hinge on saving the Autobots from their own reckless romantic stupidity. It's still tenuous, but the fact that it's also so reasonable and earnest is what makes it interesting.
I've been impressed with all the writing that Roche's name has been attached to up till now, but in light of recent issues, I have to wonder how much of that credit is also due to James Roberts, who co-wrote with Roche on the stories in question.
Yup yup.
Right. GIJOE is such a property that anyone who can write semi-hardboiled military/espionage storylines can probably do well with the basic toolbox of characters and structures. As long as you throw around some almost satirical macho banter, and pepper it with enough realistic engineering and hardware fetishism to keep the gearheads happy, you're fine.
Transformers is actually a far more specialized and deceptively complex property.
zmog
Greyley
Agreed. A lot of the problems we have with Costa's TF stories are things that aren't specific to Transformers, but are overall weak writing or bad decision making. It's the plot threads that aren't followed through, one of the main characters being a scumbag that the audience can't relate to, the constant confusion about what everyone's motivation is, and the general decompression. The problem isn't just a poor grasp of TFs, it's that all the different aspects of the writing don't succeed like they should.
And good writing comes into play there, too…one could argue that Roche's interpretation of Prowl was "making shit up" since he took the character into much darker territory than we're used to in his G1 form. But the difference is that Roche is a good writer who understands the characters and story, so when he changes things, it still works. Almost everyone loves his machiavellian borderline-Deception Prowl, but if a lesser writer tried that, it probably wouldn't have worked as well. Costa doesn't understand much of the background of the world or its characters, so when he changes things it doesn't feel like he's pushing the boundaries, it feels like he doesn't understand the basics.
I like Mako's analogy about the molds; writers like Nick 'n James know the molds by heart, so they can bend them really far without breaking them beyond recognition. Costa doesn't understand the molds as well, so when he tries to bend them, they end up crumbling.
Yeah…the concept is different, and the fanbases are different, and what works with one doesn't necessarily work with the other. If you put an experienced TF writer on a Joe book, it would probably be the same way. Just because both stories are based on an 80s boy's toy line doesn't make them interchangeable.
SMOG
Yeah, concept vs execution is a big problem in Costa's stuff I'm finding. Putting all my complaints in perspective, I agree that this issue was not bad at all. Seriously the only gripe I had was Streetwise's characterization, which is not overriding… just part of Costa's overall trend. In the big picture, this was a decent issue.
It'd be nice to see the Protectobots get some development… some PROPER development, mind you.
zmog
Wheeljack_Prime
I have to admit I kind of laughed at Inferno's facepalm bit; and I do like how Prowl, while still not back to being Prickimus Maximus, at least didn't do anything like he did in #1. Plotwise, liked the concept, but execution was lacking. And Streetwise totally should have been Stakeout.
SMOG
Even Serpentor is not so far off, since his original persona possessed a sort of bewitching, instinctual charisma that inspired loyalty and made him a compelling leader of men. Add to that his grandiose self-image (being the synthesized clone of dozens of the world's greatest conquerors helps) and sense of archaic dramaturgy, and it's no leap to see him as a cult leader.
Heck, even Cobra Commander was played with some similar traits, being a fast-talking demagogue with a knack for rabble-rousing and tapping into blue-collar dissatisfaction. The fact that he was also a former used-car salesman was just another of Hama's sardonic touches.
zmog
Star Saber
Most of his GI Joe stuff is co-written by Christos Gage, which might explain why they work out better than his TF stuff, based on Gage's individual work, Gage really seems like the one carrying the weight of the writing.
Also, as mentioned by SMOG, they aren't really written out of left field. Chuckles was always an undercover spy, they just made it a lot more grim n gritty. Tomax and Xamot have been established as Cobra's corporate arm. Only Serpentor has deviated much.
SMOG
No, I think the real problem is just that his writing for Transformer sucks. I mean, seriously… it's superficial, contrived, unsympathetic, unconvincing, and just generally bad. That's the main reason I'd be surprised to find GIJOE stuff is actually any good.
The problem with Costa is that if you simply enumerate the main plot points that he's touched on, it actually sounds really interesting. The broad ideas have real merit… but time and again, they end up flat due to poor characterization or exploration.
You might argue the (legitimate) standpoint that it's hard to write stories for giant alien robot that still evoke a "human" pathos, but that falls apart when you consider that Spike and the Skywatch team are among the most detestable characters in Costa's whole run (and when I say "detestable" I mean either horribly unlikable, or simply just dull).
However… going from the plot points you've touched on from his GIJOE run above, I wouldn't say that he's deviated from the original characters very much at all (heck, it couldn't possibly be worse than the GIJOE movie from a few years back!). Chuckles was always the undercover guy (though his strength was his easy-going manner and gift for glibness). Tomax and Xamot were always corporate law wizards. Serpentor as a cult leader? It fits pretty well. Cobra was always a subversive organization dealing in banana dictatorships and grassroots terrorism. If you haven't already, I recommend dipping into some of the old Hama GIJOE stuff… it's a world apart from the cartoon.
If you're going from the cartoon mostly, I could seem why some of this might seem off-beat, but when discussing GIJOE, the Marvel comic really is the only relevant media (again, a comic series that was written literally by the same guy who invented all the GIJOE characters, so when you read a Hama GIJOE story, you're really going directly to the source). The darkness you're highlighting in the stories is simply a sign of the times, an indicator that now we demand higher stakes and more realism… Hama's stories always had an undercurrent of melodrama, gallows humor and pulp satire that kept him from getting too dead serious.
In fact, much as I love Hama's work, I think that GIJOE is an easier game for Costa, not just because the characters are human, but because the Joes were never quite as strongly characterized as those early G1 Transformers. When it comes down to it, the Budiansky bios have a lot more character depth and variety than you would find in the original Joe/Hama files… which gives Costa a bit of a freer hand when interpreting them anew. I think I enjoyed Hama's writing more than Budiansky's in terms of dialogue and plotting, but in many ways Bud's robots often seemed more "human" than Hama's soldier boys did.
zmog
Infosaur
The GI Joe stuff is good, and for the same reason he's getting trashed by TF fans. He's taking established characters and going completely out of left field with them.
I'm not a big GI Joe fan so I'm not as into the characters as others might be but does anyone remember "Chuckles"?
He was released WAAAAY late in the original line, one of the last characters to get into the G1 (Joe) cartoon. It might have even been the Cobra La movie.
Dude's supposed to be an undercover, and he wears a Hawaiian shirt?
Well in Cobra (the book, Costa's been writing):
Tomax & Xamot:
Serpentor:
They've actually stayed away from the major players like Destro and The Barroness, And the Joes have proven to be expendable when the story calls for it. Whatever he's doing seems to be working with GI Joe, It just doesn't translate with TF.
SMOG
I've been curious about his GIJOE stuff too, since it's apparently gotten such positive response. Surely it has to be better than his Transformers stuff.
zmog
artiepants
Now i'm curious, I haven't read any of Costa's work besides the 5 page previews (I'm following IDW via the "IDW Collection" Hardcovers), which I've felt ranged from workmanlike to dreadful, but have any of ya'll read his GIJoe work, because, as i understand it, that's been generally well received… Just wondering if anyone has any contrast or comparisons that are worth noting between his handing of the 2 properties.
Mako Crab
Yeah, you have to be aware of the molds before you can break them. Costa's not aware of the molds. He's not breaking them. He's just writing totally different, new characters that happen to share the names and likenesses of the G1 crew.
SMOG
This is it, totally.
I really didn't like McCarthy's take on Perceptor, for example… but at least he was acknowledging that Perceptor himself had changed (as was noticed by other bots as well). When I look at McCarthy's run with AHM, good or bad, it can't be missed that he really did know his stuff when it came to G1 Transformers. Pretty much everyone was either true to their original character, or a reasonable interpretation. It's pretty clear that Costa doesn't really know his stuff, and 2+ years later, apparently still hasn't really bothered to do the research… which is possibly what bothers me the most.
zmog
Mako Crab
Yeah, you're right.
Hee! Thanks! I had thought about mentioning that it was McCarthy that setup ThunderCracker's whole character arc, but didn't want to get into the issue of who gets the credit at the time. I do give Costa some credit for maintaining TC's inner struggle. The scenes with TC were some of the best in the ongoing.
YES!
It does little for Costa's credibility, when horror stories get out about how he just has Roberts or someone slap a random name onto the dialogue he's already written. If I could see how the drastic character changes were a natural progression of that character's evolution, then I'd feel glad and like I was along for the ride. I'd like a good, meaty story showing how a character grows and changes over time. But I never got the impression that Costa knew the characters, worked with their established personality types, or broke the molds. He just pounded a bunch of round pegs into square holes until they fit the story that he was writing.
Infosaur
Actually, now adays it's a lot more like it was in old days when I started. Little geek shops where people knew who you were and you could hang out after school. Sure you might see some comic cleavage (or more) but it was proably safer than 90% of the places you could be after school. (some guys were doing drugs, but since the owner didn't want cigarettes to burn out his inventory he had a strict no-smoking policy before it was the law. Even though he'd step outside to light one up) and you could usually ride your bike home before dinner.
Before the 70's? I don't really know, a lot of comics got sold in drugstores and newstands, but probably only the major titles. I don't know where the hippie-used book store vibe came in either, but Forbidden Planets proximity to The Strand might have something to do with it too. The whole industry's got connections to NYC publishing. It's just weird that that somehow gets out to places like,,, Omaha.
Anyway in the 90's is when, (in my opinion) the whole buisness went to hell. I call it the "Superman #1 moment". People who bought #1's of everything were one thing, but speculators who bought comic shops like crazy ("because the kids dig 'em, dontchaknow?") in a way were worse. The stores were staffed by teens who weren't fans. People who weren't fans tried to get their "street cred" by buying licenced merchandise.
Comics weren't underground anymore, they were MALL. Problem was that same jock that gave you shit in the 6th grade for knowing the spiderman theme song (the 60's one) was now sporting a Batman tat.
And like most fads, 75% of the crowd moved on. And what was left behind was an unsustainable buisness model. Comic shops that needed to move 1500 books a month plus other merch (posters, hats, T's and what have you) just to pay the mall rent were suddenly empty.
Contraction or "right sizing", the industry has shrunk, painfully, back to about where it should be. There IS a problem with getting younger buyers in the door. But past attempts have only alienated older fans (the one's with $$!).
Comic books may only be a brief blip in history actually. But while they're here, we've had quite a run of art, writing and modern mytholgy.
Ah well, they'll always be a college level elective class on it someday.
VaderPrime1
#25 was "Meh" for me. Hopefully the earth story gets better!
SMOG
He wrote everything in the ongoing since the death of Ironhide after All Hail Megatron. He's totally thrown established character types to the wind many times during that tenure, and is responsible for a number of really tedious, poorly developed "plot twists" that end up being potentially interesting ideas wasted with superficial, mediocre writing.
I could itemize a bunch of that Costa-isms that have earned my ire, but I think it would just make me resentful of how much money I've spent buying his stupid run.
As for Streetwise, yeah… I remember him being "the other cop car" in that Prowl Spotlight, though he didn't really do anything much at that point.
Thundercracker? Are you kidding? That's one of the few smart things Costa has done in his run, and to be fair, he was pretty much just carrying that over from what the unfairly-maligned Shane McCarthy was doing with Thundercracker in AHM.
Exaaaaaactly!
Right. In other words, REAL Thundercracker…. not "blue Skywarp" like he was in the cartoon. Let's face it… a lot of characters got short-changed back in the day, both in Marvel and in the Cartoon, just due to there not being enough time to give everyone some face-time. Just because they got faded into the wallpaper or neglected doesn't mean that they didn't really HAVE those personalities. Those personalities are FUSED to them from their very genesis. They were given those personalities by their creator himself.
If you want to depict Cybertron Thundercracker or Armada Starscream (or whoever) differently, that's one thing… but if you're playing with the real G1 toybox, you stick with the real characters, or an organic permutation thereof. If you just start making it up your own shit, you're just plain wrong.
So yeah. There it is. Costa is wrong.
And Rumble is Red. That is all.
zmog
UltraMagnus3786
Just to qualify that statement, perhaps in the tech specs, the comics, or some other media, but not the cartoon.
Mako Crab
Thundercracker's exile from the Decepticons was one of the few things I still really liked about the ongoing when I canceled it. TC was always established as being the one Seeker that kind of had doubts about the Decepticon cause, and so if anyone were to step back and look at what they were doing, it'd be him. In that sense, it seemed a natural progression of his character.
dj_convoy II
Costa's plot is far more important to him than characterization. Period. He hammers characters into plots ("Hey, James? Couldja send me some names, please?") as opposed to writing stories about characters. Expecting anything less at this point from the man is setting yourself up for disappointment.
There are no Transformers comics until December.
Lumpy
Streetwise debuted in the TF Ongoing issue 1, with Prowl and going into hiding. not sure he did much, but i still feel he worked well in this situation. like you said, most characters are very g1, but some are different… i mean, Thundercracker working with the Autobots? that's not g1 at all, but it worked. i don't remember what other issues Costa has written, so i can't recall anything else that might've bugged me, i'd have to go reread everything to figure it out.
but ultimately, it's all based on one's own opinion, and we don't have to agree.
side note, I love the rivalry that's been created between Streetwise and Breakdown… don't remember if that was in g1 at all, but between the Botcon 2010 set and this story, they've got a good little feud going…