There Will be TWO Transformers Henkei Exclusive Starscream Repaints

Nope, you're not the only one. But that was Hasbro's doing. Takara has rights to release TFs in Japan and through Sonokong in Korea, but Hasbro's products are actually available and solicited elsewhere in Asia.

I remember when Action HQ had Alt NP up for preorder, way before it was announced he was an SDCC exclusive. Thats how I got mine, paid close to $100 shipped for two.

it could affect future demand for FP products...i for one would definitely not want to drop the money on future exclusives knowing i could possibly wait a year and get them for half the price from japan...

Ah. That kinda makes sense. Thanks.

FP sold the botcon molds to takara, which in turn sold to E-hobby....

Come to papa lil' darlings muhuhuhahahaa......

I wish.

Most Botcon exclusives done usually aren't of core characters though, which the 2007 set was(unless it's a self contained set like 2006's was). At the time Hasbro had no plans for the remaining seekers, but I have to wonder if the thought of Takara doing their own ever crossed the minds of the FP crew. Surely it had to. They really took a gamble IMO.

Besides, you really take your chances with the value of exclusives anyway, it's all at the mercy of the secondary market, why is why most people don't collect TFs as some form of investment. In the past I've tried selling my Botcon Megazarak at the JE a few times and had no luck, even at a $45 price. On the other hand, were I to try and sell my Sentinel Maximus(which I'm not) it'd probably find a buyer in no time at all at a decent price. The same comparision could be made of the 2005 set vs the 2007 set.

Did'ja know that the guy who says "taste the rainbow" and such is also the guy who voiced Lion-O, Lord of the Thundercats?! Pretty messed up, huh?

I'll never look at Lion-O the same way again.

i totally agree about the second part...

however, the first part, every botcon set since FP took over has had at least one 'core' character, if not more....ironhide and ratchet in 05, the entire BW crew in 06, the 3 seekers last year and now this year there's prime, megatron, jazz, starscream etc...granted they are alternate takes, but still core characters....

and if you do decide to sell sentinel maximus...let me know, i may be buying him for my birthday, hopefully...

Its not about the secondary market. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with it in fact. Its STRICTLY about getting people to buy their exclusives. If you make a toy, and tell everyone get it now while you can as this is the only way you'll get it! then you have to back that up. Otherwise people who fork over those high wads of cash feel burned and betrayed, that they wasted their money. Then those people will not buy your exclusives anymore in the future, for fear of it happening to them again. THAT is what the whole argument is about.

i really hope at least one is thundercracker the outcry for this one fig is huge the money to be made is tempting for a big company and if they did dirge they could always give him g1 wings he would look nothing like the botcon strait repaint of ramjet which means no legal problems over that one.

I understand that, I really do. Though not every 2007 set owner feels the same way. But FP did what they did. Maybe they considered the Takara side of things. Maybe they didn't. Either way they'll just have to live with the consequences should Takara decide to do their own TC, Dirge, and Thrust. At the very least they won't be direct copies. Those Botcon Dirge's and Thrust's will still be unique. In the end though, this is just a very complicated situation that's out of our hands and that will end up pissing one side off. With nothing to do but suck it up and move on.

That said, out of curiosity I'd love to hear Pete or Brian's thoughts on the matter.

Nah. Fans have been forking over buttloads of cash for pre-release Animated, and they're not going to whine when we pay $19.99 to get ours later. Fans will still pay the money to get classics TC 2 years before everyone else can get the Henkei version (should it be on the slate, that is.)

To me, there are 2 camps of whining when it comes to this topic: (1.) Fans who whine because they missed out on Botcon TC. (2.) Fans who got Botcon TC and are deathly afraid that someone else might get him and that they might not be special anymore because they can't hold their toy and say "Hahahaha, you can never have this!"

Much respect to all those Botcon TC owners who would be happy to let others have a shot at him.

I don't believe Takara releasing a Henkei version of him would affect FP one whit.

Well, Botcon is the world-wide convention so it is a japanese exclusive too.

The problem with 'having a shot' is now whenever FP releases a popular exclusive, people will say "Fuck you FP, I will wait for Takara to release it." Which will hurt FP. It has nothing to do with the secondary market, it has to do with the primary market. No matter how much justifying the Botcon seeker wanters make, it is does hurt FPs future ability to make exclusives. What happens if they make a Henkei Jazz out of the mold that FP did? Or a Black Rodimus? People would say "I love them FP, but I am going to wait for Japanese exclusives because I am cheap and don't want to pay for FP prices"

It is just a bad precedent that would hurt FP and benefit selfish and entitled people. Since Botcon is a world-wide appeal, it makes those a world-wide exclusive. I just don't think you will see it happen. But I am curious what FPs opinion is on it. Someone go ask them.

We all saw how TakaraTomy improved the deco of Hasbro's Starscream, but what could they do to better Thundercracker's? Skywarp is a given IMO, but I'm still leaning towards the other being Screamer's ghost.

Whatever they end up doing, I'll buy 'em just b/c it's a fantastic mold...and I have the complete '07 Botcon set. Will it piss me off if they make TC or the other Botcon seekers? Maybe a little...but I'm not one of those bitter fans that hates Fun Publications b/c I couldn't afford something they put out that I wanted.

Well, Botcon is the world-wide convention so it is a japanese exclusive too.


How would the US fans feel if the worldwide convention was in Japan, or Sweden, or any other equally distant nation?

We all saw how TakaraTomy improved the deco of Hasbro's Starscream, but what could they do to better Thundercracker's?

Lighter blue and chrome, most likely.

Hey I'll be more than happy dappy to get an "in box" example of skywarp with diff paint apps, than buying the Ultra magnus-Skywarp 2 pack, and open it just for skywarp...

Watch, one will be chrome plated starscream, and the other'll be gold plated.....like the bumblebee movie fig exclusive.

But, "they" should know that herein lies a small niche market of us fans on a smaller budget that would like to complete the classics set of seekers. But I'm sure they do know, and recognize that fact, which maybe why they are releasing these 2 exclusives. Maybe more will follow! Heres to hoping......

Umm...some of us aren't cheap. Some of us genuinely can't afford it. Sorry if you happen to make more money than me, or anyone else that is fortunate enough to afford these.

i didnt see him say you were cheap...but its also not about being cheap...its about limited and exclusive toys...some are, some are not...if you know somethings coming up that you want that might be expensive, you can save money, there's always a way...or get a new credit card just for that purchase, then cancel it once its paid off...i had to save like crazy for my botcon set, but it was totally worth it...

and i've asked on the FP club forums about the exclusivity of their products, and have never gotten a response, so i really dont think pete will chime in on this situation at all...we are all left to just wonder...

Sorry, he may not have said I was cheap personally, but he insinuated that anyone doesn't want to pay FP prices is cheap.

Not really surprising is it? But, it was brought up to Hasbro at the 2007 convention, and they said it was possible for Takara to do these characters, but that any version of them they released would be different from the ones released at Botcon. So, it's possible, but who knows right? Maybe it will be Thundercracker and Skywarp or maybe it'll be the usual Ghost Screamer and Black Screamer... could even be Sunstorm and someone else.

And, even though I've got Botcon TC... I'd wouldn't mind another Classics TC if it were different enough as he's my favorite Seeker. However, no matter what this is (save for a Starscream Ghost) I'll be purchasing it.

I've got the set and I'm glad to say I'm in neither group of people. The Decepticon jets have always been my favorites since the begining of G1, and of course with my karma, the 3 i like the most get shoehorned into a rediculously expensive exclusive. I didn't buy the set for either bragging rights (i've certainly got some rare figures, but that's not why i buy them), or for investment (i wouldn't tear open everything i buy if that was the case)
So I'd certainly be happy for anyone who missed a chance to get them to have that chance.. but that being said, I *did* throw down a considerable amount of money for the set because I figured that was the only way I'd ever get a complete set of Classic Seekers.

So if Takara did indeed take away their "exclusiveness", for lack of a better word, I would definately hestiate to buy any more convention pieces knowing that if I was patient and waited, I could get them cheaper. I guess my own gripe/whine/complaint is that I personally wasted more money than i had to

But point is that FP would definately lose a customer in me.. not that I'm begrudging Takara for filling demand, or for people who want something they couldn't get. Though I admit I do hope if Takara makes their own versions, they do "modernized" ones, as that would make a complete set of ones with different decos, adding in the 3 Has. store releases and ones with classic fanwank ones, mixing the BC set with the Henkei guys.

is that 2nd camp really so bad? i mean, i paid alot of money to have those figures...and thats the nature of exclusive toys...some people have them, some dont...its kinda the point of exclusives...if everyone had the exclusive toy, it wouldnt be so exclusive, would it?

however, these both being exclusives overseas does mean anyone who buys them will still be paying alot for them...i just wonder how different they have to make them...

and as chaos sorcerer and i haev pointed out, it would hurt FP in the future...i wouldnt want to buy something that's labeled exclusive, only to end up seeing it mass released at a later date...that's just retarded...why would i want to spend 300 bucks on a set when it would be available for less then a 3rd of that price later...just doesnt make sense...

I bought my Botcon 2007 set from FP, so it wasn't that expensive. Relatively that is.

i did too...and i can only imagine that people who spent 300 just for thundercracker would be bloody furious if takara drops one...

Even if it's not exactly the same?

yeah, that mold in blue is always going to evoke thundercracker...doesnt matter how they change the colors...

I agree, those people would be mad. But that's no different than Takara Encore Omega Supreme making the MISB G1 Omega drop in value. Or Liokaiser, Overlord or any three-figure toy were remade. Right now, I'm waiting for reissues of the late G1 Japanese toys. Waiting paid off for Star Convoy and God Ginrai.

Them's the breaks, I guess. You pay what you think the toy is worth. In the end, you are the one who decided to buy or not.

Yes, but an anime-inspired bright blue paint job would be different. And not be Botcon Thundercracker. If I bought a Henkei Thundercracker with that paint job, I would not think I had the Botcon Thundercracker....as that one was different in my eyes.

Agreed. I have Robotmasters Thundercracker and there's no way he could be mistaken for Botcon TC, even in jet mode.

I think this thread conclusively points out one thing: Whether or not Thundercracker is released in the Henkei line, there is going to be massive amounts of whining from one group or the other, and fanboys everywhere acting butthurt.

It'll either be "waaaaaah, why can't we have a Thundercracker tooooooo?" or "waaaaaah, why do other people get to have a Thundercracker tooooooooo?"

Sigh. I'd like to have a shot at a Thundercracker, even if he's modified. But even if I don't, I'm going to buy these ones. And eventually I'm just going to paint myself a Thundercracker classics figure, if this Henkei thing doesn't work out.

Botcon Thundercracker IS a bright blue, I dont' get why people think its more toy-accurate, I certainly never felt that way.

Doesn't look bright blue to me. Bright blue, to me, means just that: bright blue. And Thundercracker from the cartoon is bright blue.

Botcon looks a darker shade of blue, by far. More G1 Thundercracker than cartoon.

QFFT. This is why I skipped the set, and why I'd get a Henkei version if one came out. Was I pissed FP made a major character an exclusive? Not particularly, but that doesn't mean I didn't want a mass release or stopped wanting one. Just didn't feel it was worth that much.

And yes, I have dropped ridiculous amounts on rarer figures before (G1 Sunstreaker is the most recent that springs to mind), but they're usually molds I didn't have that I was comfortable spending the money on, on its own merits, not as an investment or a status symbol (lol) or whatever. It's nice when it holds value (obviously!!) but I'd rather the coolest toys be easy for everyone to get. If you're buying it as an investment, be aware that investments inherently involve risk, including the value going down.

Maybe that makes me "selfish" or "cheap" or whatever label some self righteous jackass wants to slap on it, but I honestly can't think of a less selfish way to feel about toy availability (lol!!). After all aren't we fans of the stuff first and foremost?

He's not sky blue, but he certainly is not dark. hell you saw one in person, you should know he's not even close to the original's color.

lol Yes, I did....and I would still say he's closer to the originals than cartoon.

you're crazy.

OH SNAP!

Ok.....

You're crazier....

Impossible

He's a lot closer to this than he is this.

Randy

I have both toys, I know what it looks like. Those pictures are very misleading, they're NOT that close.

i disagree...g1 omega supreme was not an exclusive figure...nor were any of the japanese late g1 figures...they may have been limited in release, but they were not made to be exclusive, as in small numbers...they were exclusive to a country...now, if the botcon toys had been stated as limited to the US and CANADA, i'd have no problem with it at all...


at this point, i really just wish they would tell us who they are so we can all start on the "OMG that's awesome" vs "OMG WTF MATE thats dumbness"

those are the same pictures dude....did you mean to do that?

The major argument in the original Botcon Shitstorm was the entitlement to own a product with an artificial level of 'worth' applied to it.

*EVERY* exclusive that comes out there are people who respond the same way 'That is a 20$ mold, no matter what color it is, it should cost no more than 20 dollars.' They either don't understand or refuse to accept the production costs associated with low number runs. This came up with Spacewarp. When it was a 20$ exclusive, people were all for it, but an 80 dollar limited run, everyone went "it is a 20$ figure, SCALP, GOUGE, THEFT!"

And if you can't afford an exclusive, then accept it. We all can't afford everything we want. Expecting exclusives to be 'broke' by alternative releases so you can afford it is not the way to go. Which is what people have been wanting for years, not a single Japanese Classics thread can exist without "botcon seekers?" popping up. People think they have the right to own transformers at retail prices, and they don't.

If your finances are not sound, I question the wisdom in investing *any* money in *any* hobby. If you are buying TFs, but are in debt, paying off loans or rent your house, then I am not calling you cheap, but I am questioning your priorities and money management. From age 14 to college, I was poor and had more important things to spend money on. Which means I missed most of BW and RID toys simply because I couldn't afford it. I was still aware of the toys and picked a few up but I missed the collecting like I can now. If you can't afford Botcn seekers, then I would say you can't realistically afford Japanese Import Seekers or even retail seekers.

I think I want Takara-tomy to do their own versions of the show seekers just so this topic can hopefully, finally die.

I don't think I have a right to own any toy. I want to own the toy because I want it. It's that simple. Why can't I hope that one of these figures is Thundercracker? Doing so does not mean I think someone owes me something or I'm entitled to anything. It means I want to buy a G1-inspired Classics Thundercracker....and I do not want to spend $200-$400 for one. If this G1-inspired Classics Thundercracker shows up on some Japanese website for sell at a fraction of that cost, then I am going to buy it. Not because I think I have a right to it, but because I can't afford nearly half a grand for one.

Which brings me to this: How does me not being able to blow hundreds of dollars on a toy or two, mean that I can't afford a toy that will probably be $30-$50? Heck, anything below $100. It doesn't take too much thought to figure out that hundreds of dollars is less affordable than something that is less than a hundred bucks. So, why wouldn't I be able to realistically afford it?

If you can afford 50$ for ANY toy, then either you are sound in your finances which means you probably could have afforded Botcon seekers or fiscally irresponsible and shouldn't be spending money on TFs. (considering 5 figures for 300$ = 60$ per fig)

There is a difference between not wanting to pay for an exclusive because it is not worth that money for you and 'can't afford it'. Choosing to not pay the price for an exclusive means you go without. Can't afford means you need to re-assess his personal financial situation. But wanting someone to come along and undercut an exclusive that someone worked hard to have sponsored by HAS/TAK for a special event so you can get it cheap, I don't agree with that and it sets a bad precedent.

Ok, lets say it like this: I can't afford hundreds of dollars spent at one time. If they would've given me the option to pay for it in payments, sure, I could afford that. $50, as a one time thing, for one figure, I can afford. Big difference, imo.

No, this was the link I meant to post.
http://images.wikia.com/transformers...dercracker.jpg
Which is cartoon colors.
I have both too. Classics is lighter with a bit more green tint to him, but they're still very close. Much closer than either of them is to Robot Masters TC or the cartoon colors.

Randy