More news from the Third Party world which seems to be on fire today for various things! This time it’s in hand pictures of Mastermind Creation’s Salvia Prominon, their take on Solus Prime. This was spotted by TFW member ki1983ng from 景田-百岁山’s Weibo. Here we see she comes with two swords and guns, shared by her Azalea mold mate, as well as MMC’s take on the Hammer of Solus Prime which looks quite spiffy! Check out all the pics, and discuss, after the jump!
SDave
Looking to sell my unopened copy if that interests anyone.
MMC Reformatted Solus Prime Salvia Prominion R10 Mastermind Creations MISB | eBay
DocSeth81
is there a way to JUST get that hammer?
BlueSilver
It's funny, I've had this figure for a while now and only just realized that her central head crest is the shade of gold that matches her forge, and not the same shade as the rest of her body! I like it though. It seems more like a crown now.
Potchez
My03Tundra
How are the hips for those who have gotten this figure?
Curium
Maybe it would have been better to have a "Concepts" thread then go to individual threads when there were actual products. Seems like a good middle ground.
Don't worry about triggering the 3rd party "legality" argument. By and large it is only a matter of time until someone plays that card in most of these threads. If it wasn't you someone probably would have started it on their own at some point. You shouldn't let others reactions dictate your ability to get the info you need. They just need to prove their moral superiority.
archieboy
I just got this… and I LOVE IT. First experience with the mold, and I haven't transformed it yet. So maybe that's the reason.
jfetch
Awesome! Thank you so much for this info! I'm looking forward to it!
Geez, I wasn't meaning for this to turn into a 3rd party botcon argument. (I'm pretty sure there's another thread for that.) Sorry about that!
Lodril
They do not, in fact. If you're going to delve into this sort of discussion, you should probably keep in mind the various types of intellectual property. The three that could possibly be involved here are patent, trademark, and copyright.
When it comes to 'patent' protection, there are two relevant types here: utility patents (ie, the idea of a thing that turns into another thing), and design patents (the very specific design of a particular thing that turns into another thing). All must be filed before or within a year of public release, so they can't really backdate stuff to take advantage of patent protection for things already released. Patents must also be novel, and once they expire, the technology therein becomes public domain… so even if they had a utility patent on robot toys configurable as other things (which they did not), that would have been in the '80s, and long since expired.
Tomy owns a few Japanese design patents on some very specific designs, but patents are limited to their specific claims, so only a direct knockoff would infringe those patents. Hasbro's never bothered with that for Transformers.
Trademark protection is limited to source identifiers… that is, specific things that could identify the source of goods. It generally covers things like the name 'Transformers' or the Autobot and Decepticon symbols. Since they cannot serve as identifiers if more than one party is controlling them, trademarks must be enforced to be maintained. The 3P offerings generally avoid trademark infringement by changing the names and omitting trademark symbols from their products. The folks selling stickers skirt the edges, arguably by not using the symbols as trademarks themselves, thus theoretically not qualifying as 'use in commerce' requiring action from the rights holders. It's a paper-thin technicality, but so far it hasn't benefited anyone to challenge it.
The final branch, and really the most relevant to what you're trying to say, is copyright. That protects an expressive work, for example, a comic book, or tv show, or a toy as a 'sculptural work'. It applies here because it does not simply protect exact copies, but also what are called 'derivative works'. An action figure of a comic book character could be considered a derivative work. Taking a two-dimensional representation and pulling it into a three dimensional sculptural work requires what the law calls (somewhat ironically, here) a 'transformative act'. Depending on how different the derivative work is from its source material, it may or may not be actionable as a derivative work.
It's a murky area. Even when Optimus Prime hit the stores, other red robots reconfigurable as trucks were also available for sale. Mere similarity is not enough to trigger copyright protection… and the further from the source material the expressive work is, the greater the difficulty in estopping it at trial. At the end of the day, it is murky – and therein lies the rub. Murky cases are expensive, and difficult, and fraught with risk. And they should be. Pepsi shouldn't be forbidden for being a drink similar to Coca-Cola, nor should Marvel be sued for swiping the idea of a team of super-heroic characters from DC.
Hasbro's own properties are on shaky ground in that regard already. Almost every Transformer is styled after someone else's design, and very few of them are licensed. Optimus Prime is a Freightliner design, and Freightliner didn't see a penny. Megatron was a Walther, the Seekers were McDonnell Douglas, in more recent years, Crosswise was clearly an unlicensed Bugatti. That's always been the case, and one of Hasbro's problems in going after 3P toys will always be what the courts call the doctrine of 'unclean hands'.
Which is not to say that Hasbro doesn't have a case with some of these 3P toys, but for most of what is discussed on these forums, it's not a simple matter of black and white. More importantly, it's not really our business. Hasbro decides when and where to enforce their intellectual property. The folks who own the 'happy birthday' song, for example, are only litigious against commercial interests… they choose to let everyone else use their work freely. That's their choice, so you don't need to yell at folks on their behalf at a birthday party.
Now, as for what Hasbro wants available to be sold at their own official convention, regardless of the actual enforceability of their IP, is still their business too, but don't let that fool you into thinking that these are clear and obvious infringements, because you'll really only find that in the KO threads.
Mecheon
They do have a patent on the Transformers, though
Don't play stupid. Copyrighted names or symbols doesn't keep it safe. Mattel can't go and release a big red truckbot and call him Notimus Slime and expect to get away with that and not, say, get sued.
I acknowledge there's a few in there different enough to stay safe, mainly Fansproject stuff. But they're few and far between
FruitBuyer
She's technically introduced in Transformers Prime as one of the Thirteen.
Basketball Jones
Is this character even Hasbro IP? Did they trademark her, or is she just a minor character in the comics? I searched for Solus in the USPTO database and found nothing, although I did find Hasbro's trademark for Megatron.
TheGrognard
Nope. They don't use any copyrighted symbols or names, and they use original molds and designs. Hasbro doesn't have a patent on transforming robots.
NeoMatter
Been waiting a long time for this (as well as Eupatorium). LOL.
Glad it's finally coming. Wow my fembot army is growing in numbers this year.
ShanLan
Mmmm….I tend to get more of an 80's She-Ra toys vibe out of her colours. Quite awesome, she should be posed kicking the Horde's ass with She-Ra, Frosta and Glimmer! To anyone who owns some of Masters Of The Universe figures, please indulge me so that I can smile like an idiot.
Electro Rush
"Illegal" really isn't the right word. "Unauthorized", "unlicensed", etc would be more apt. No one is gonna go to prison for owning a third party product.
Mecheon
Or, y'know, Hasbro don't want infringements on their intellectual property up for sale at the official convention
I mean, you do realise that every Third Party Transformer is technically illegal with the exception of limited run Japanese stuff and the original things (Which only FP really seems to do, see Steel Core and the Glacialbots), right? And it only survives in the first place because Hasbro haven't kicked back too far against it, except in the case of the iGear MP Seekers which is why they aren't sold any more?
I like some Third Party stuff, but let's not kid ourselves here, it has always been illegal.
GR1ML0CK
Ive been waiting for elita
divinecomedy
Put in my preorder at TCP as well.
TM2 Dinobot
Oh. Well you just need to know where to look. I promise they're there.