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WTF Primetime - 42 - Regeneration Hour - November 6 2012

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Old 11-15-2012, 02:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Noizemaze View Post
Would be difficult to smash a canister when you're either stasis locked or when they've been pulled from your hands. I doubt they're faster than pure energy.
Those artifacts need to charge up before use. The Decepticon's would have just shoot one of the canisters by that time and do you think the main Cons who know what the artifacts can do would just stand there and let the Autobots use them?
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #22
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Those artifacts need to charge up before use. The Decepticon's would have just shoot one of the canisters by that time and do you think the main Cons who know what the artifacts can do would just stand there and let the Autobots use them?
I don't recall it being said or shown anywhere that the artifacts require a "charge time" and can't just be used on demand. Even if the Decepticons are ready for them, the Autobots have pulled off more unlikely gambits in the past just because it was written that way. This was a situation that was, despite the situation essentially being in the Autobots favor, was written to make it look like the Autobots just refused to consider using the tools at their disposal to attempt a rescue.

All I'm saying is that once again, instead of feeling natural, events played out the way they did just because it was written to, not because it made sense or felt natural to the characters.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:26 PM   #23
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I think Prime's problem is that it aspired to greatness.

Very few great pieces of entertainment were intended to be great. They just happen and if the writing is good enough, if the performances are good enough, then it all just sort of happens. Jerry Seinfeld didn't set out to create one of the funniest sitcoms ever, he just made the show he wanted to make, and he did it with talented people, and great things happened. Or to bring it back to Transformers, the writers of Beast Wars didn't intend to create arguably the greatest piece of Transformers fiction. They were just told to make a show to sell these new animal Transformers. Good writing and voice acting, however, made it great.

Prime, however, aspired to be great. Again, that's the problem. When you aspire to be great you only think of the big picture. Big concepts that you think will be awesome.

A dramatic, movie-esque score.
Megatron raising a zombie army.
Starscream going out on his own as a lone wolf.
A terrorist group that wants to weaponize Cybertronian tech.
Nemesis Prime.
A human/Cybertronian hybrid.
Unicron IS the Earth.
Optimus Prime loses his memory and becomes a Decepticon.
Megatron alive in Bumblebee's head.
Bulkhead potentially dying as he's in critical condition.
Nearly unbeatable Insecticons. Who travel in swarms, no less.
Optimus finally realizing Megatron HAS to die.
A Dinobot-like character who dies standing up for his honour.
Uncovering the ultimate weapon of the Primes and Megatron defiling the grave of a dead Prime to make his own counterpart for a final battle.
The possible restoration of Cybertron.

Truth be told you'd only need a few of these to make a pretty epic Transformers series. What I think happened was that the creative team for Prime aspired to greatness, and as a result they came up with all of this. Yet like I said, aspiring to greatness means you only think big picture. So while they thought of all of these great ideas they faltered when they had to actually write the show. Big, epic, great concepts are all well and good, but you still need to write a show to get to them. And that's where the whole thing unravelled.
Now they have to find a way to include all of their great, epic ideas, and you get stuff that should be epic and great reduced to a season finale at best. Unicron as the Earth or Megatron robbing a Prime's grave to gain an arm so he could build his own counterpart to the Star Sabre could EASILY be the series finales on their own for two different Transformers shows. Hell, you could build an entire season of Megatron in Bumblebee's head.
Yet because the Prime team wanted to be great instead of just letting greatness happen they forced each into paltry arcs that are forgotten the moment the arc concludes.

So yeah. Don't aspire to be great. Just write good television. Greatness will happen if you have all the right pieces in place. If you try to force it you get....well you get this. Epic concepts treated like check box items.
I agree with all of this. The writers wanted Transformers Prime to be great, but as a result they rushed all of the plot points to the point where it felt unnatural and forced most of the time. If a writer really does want their show to be "great" he/she needs to let the plot flow and go at it's natural pace so that it can put all of the greatness into place.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by LordGigaIce View Post
I think Prime's problem is that it aspired to greatness.

[...]
That is a very good point. It's as if the show is trying too hard to be "epic" rather than just coming up with a new, interesting story of its own and running with it.
Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:53 PM   #25
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As someone who aggressively defended this series back when it first aired, I funny enough find myself in the same boat as Gog.
I really wanted to like this series. I really want to defend this series. But after the piling of criticism after criticism, someone even as stubborn as I am can't ignore the egregious failings of this show and it's writers.

I feel like I'm going through the same crap I did with the movies. At first I really like what they're doing and try and defend what I like about it only to be made the fool in the end and have to conceded to the reality that it sucks.
It doesn't help the fact, being a Optimus fan boy that I am, that both recent incarnations, being the return of Peter Calen to the character, both became nothing more then jokes for the fandom to obnoxiously mock for a cheap giggle. And rightly so, as they are terribly written characters. But that doesn't make it any less depressing.

I didn't see DOTM, and much like that I really don't think I have it in me to bother with season 3 of TFP. After everything that's happened in the show, and what I know is coming, there really isn't anything left for me to enjoy.
Which is a shame, because I have little to no interest in the comics and none what so ever in the up coming 4th film.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:20 PM   #26
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Just curious: Did any of the pod cast hosts get the Prime video game yet?
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:34 PM   #27
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Listening right now, but I do have a point. Playing devil's advocate, but Optimus is dramatically different in this episode compared to the beginning of the season, (i.e. not killing Megatron when he had the chance) but, this was kind of touched on recently. It was commented that Optimus was being odd and secretive, ever since his conversation with Alpha Trion. Maybe, just speculation here, but maybe AT told Optimus something that made him not want to kill Megatron. Alpha Trion was stated to have an understanding of the prophecies of Primus, and an understanding of future events. We also know that we don't know everything Alpha T told Optimus. Now, chances are, this is completely un-related, but that could be a possible justification to be revealed next season. Who knows?
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:28 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by LordGigaIce View Post
I think Prime's problem is that it aspired to greatness.
<tl;dq>
I agree on your points but would also add that I think another of Prime's problems is that it's too serious and/or focused on the main plots. You can have a great episodic show where the big plots go by fast and don't really hit hard, if you can tune in and just enjoy the characters doing "fun" stuff. I'm not saying it should be wacky or slapstick, but think of a show like Cowboy Bebop - 90% of the episodes are completely standalone but the adventures are fun to watch all the same. I think the whole relic hunt would have been fine if they took a backseat to "fun" adventures instead of playing each and every one as a serious battle every week. The viewer fatigues when each week is set up as super-important but ultimately is self-contained. You know the bad guys are not going to win the overall war each week and so ultimately it needs to have something else other than feigning tension each week. Or, you could actually follow through on the tension and show consequences (having Bulkhead with permanent injuries, Mecha-Silas doing more, have the relics each do more than be a MacGuffin and then used 1-2 times later after, etc)

Basically, I feel the show needs to pick a side - serious battles with real consequences or episodic show that's more about enjoying the characters.

I'll definitely be watching season 3 though - it feels like they may be taking the show in a bit of a new direction and maybe once this transition (or you could even all it a retool) is over, the show can go down a better path.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:20 PM   #29
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For the most part I agreed with everything stated in this episode. But what I really want to discuss, or just state my opinion on, is the prospect of Gogdog leaving the show - I don't think he should.

Yes, there have been times where I didn't agree with his opinion but that doesn't mean he's wrong nor does it mean that his opinions carry no value. More importantly I find that he's the only member of the podcast who really gets passionate about the show and lets his feelings and emotions influence his thoughts. It's having this specific aspect that makes the podcast worth listening to for me. Then there's also the fact that he has the best predictions and it always gets me hyped to watch the next episode.

Vangelus and Aaron both seem to always be looking at the "glass half full" and generally evaluate the show more on an objective and technical basis. This is a great and fair method of looking at the show as well, but I don't want it to be the only way.

Regardless of what's said on the podcast, I don't listen to it for validation of my opinions. I listen to the show because I'm interested in what others thought. Do I have to agree with everyone's opinion? No. But as long as you can backup your statement then I will respect what you've said. And that's the number one thing Gogdog does best - he's always clearly explained why he agreed/disagreed with something.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:10 AM   #30
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I really want to see an animation of movie Prime using the Star Saber
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