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WTF Primetime - 38 - The Human Legacy - September 24 2012

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:41 PM   #21
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Speaking as someone who loved Prime from the beginning and still enjoys it, I really want to hear the commentary on the blu-ray go into just what happened with this season. The ideas, acting talent, story concepts, characters and animation are all great, something just seems to be getting in the way of execution.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:00 PM   #22
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I was excited for The Human Factor part of the podcast.. oh well... I really liked the episode. To me it was the darkest episode next to Crossfire.

My thoughts are that Cylas came to Megatron wanting to join him so he had to prove himself. At first Megarton didn't give a scrap about him because he was "an abomination" to them. So Cylas gave him the satellite to prove himself, which worked until Raf hacked it and it fell out of orbit, burning in the sky and ruining Cylas's chance of joining the Decepticons. And on top of that, he failed to terminate the kids while they were hacking the satellite. So to Megatron, he's a failure and no longer serves a purpose and as we've seen with Starscream in Rock Bottom, once you no longer serve a purpose, you're pretty much dead. Cylas got what he deserves. He cut up Cybertronians to see what made them "tick" and now he's the one getting cut up.
Maybe I would've liked to see more of him with the Decepticons, but after his failures I highly doubt Megatron would've given him another chance to prove himself worthy to stay. So right now I really don't see a purpose for Cylas staying any longer.

But yeah, I thought it was pretty good.

Surprised you guys didn't mention Raf's bedroom, 'cause we haven't seen a bedroom on Prime before. Also Sumalee Montano voicing Raf's mom. And Raf's full name.

As for the relics, I don't really mind them... I feel like they'll add up to something we have yet to see.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:06 PM   #23
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screw the Red Star Sabre. There should be a Mauve Star Saber.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:08 PM   #24
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What about Red Red Energon?
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:09 PM   #25
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I agree with nearly everything you guys are saying. A random new relic or device every week is getting extremely old. I found the Human Factor to be a huge waste of what I thought would be a cool plot with MECH. I was expecting it to be season finale tier cool story telling, but if it's just this 1 episode plot just to introduce yet another random plot device just to have Silas die at the end then it really was a disappointment.
Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #26
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I still havent watched legacy yet, this is the longest ive ever gone without reading tfwiki articles on episodes. Ill probably watch them all after the finale is uploaded on youtube
nothing going on here
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by worldsgreatest View Post
You guys said it yourselves:

Slias' main function as a character was to achieve control of/or become a Cybertronian. That was M.E.C.H's full function as an entity: to propel Silas.

While I respect the military info from Gogdog, I will have to respectfully disagree with the opinion that it should be applied to M.E.C.H.

For this reason only: Prime isn't that kind of show

Our hope that it could be or should be isn't enough to make it so. Regardless, M.E.C.H. is basically analogous to A.I.M to me. They aren't a family or a team of engineers, they're terrorists. They're anonymous. They're replaceable.

And as a vehicle for Silas, seeing as how he reached his final arc, his assassination of them made total sense in context of both story and character. Was it lazy? Sure. Did it make sense? To me, yes.

Again, Silas' arc made sense to me even as far as him teaming up with Megatron. It's a clash of egos. CYRUS believes he is superior. Hence I believe that his intent was the ultimate takeover of the Decepticons from inside. He was a cocky mofo.

Megatron (through all incarnations) has always had an intense distain for small fleshy creatures. Giving CYRUS a mission and having him fail seems almost like a zero-sum game to me. I took it to mean that it didn't matter if he succeeded or failed:

Megatron was going to chop him up no matter the outcome

Also: if you don't see the body, he isn't dead. Like you guys said.

Applying real world physics to a children's cartoon is...weird. I skipped that part of the Podcast.

Anyway. Just my two cents.
I agree on this about Silas terminating his men solely because he basically got what he wanted. They weren't a family. Just replaceable people in a terrorist group that followed under Silas. So I can understand the perspective of him killing off his men after he was activated.

Megatron I knew from the beginning was not going to keep Silas around.

1) He's human

2) He's in one of his men and using it as a puppet/toy to do his work and be a wannabe cybertronian

3) His Damacles didn't work and he failed to destroy the kids.

Megatron didn't see the need nor point to keep Silas around and with Silas being a person with a high ego he would have eventually turned against Megatron for whatever reason. To take over the Cons...I don't think so because what would Silas really do with them? They wouldn't follow him like the same for Starscream or serve as loyally. Megatron would have come back anyways and destroyed Silas. It would be the same thing from season 1 all over again. So what's the point in keeping Silas around. None for Megatron. Besides if humans are capable as Silas he'll want to learn how Silas came to be and probably be prepared for another thing (mcguffin) deal to stop that.

If Silas is somehow to still be alive he might be watched and always have some guards to keep a close on him or just him escaping and being another faction akin to Starscream's position: alone.

So this episode was still good to me anyways. I liked it to a certain point, but after listening to the podcast there are so many things the writers could have done, but really I don't see how it could go along with the plot or if they would have time to put it in just for the fan's pleasure. It seems like its just mixed up and in a intersection of what to do's in this show.

They did say this season was just based on finding the relics so next season its probably going to fix all this up. Get the boring and drawn out stuff out of the way that probably builds up to something potential. We don't know. I just hope they do better this next season and hope they get their writers together and really work as a team and keep up with the story and make sure not as many plotholes or mcguffins happen.

What I really hope is they work on is what the writer's planned on for what it takes to be a prime. So far we haven't seen anything of that. Maybe some hints here or there but nothing that is actually spoken or given for us to really learn. So far we just know Prime being Pax and only a Prime can wield the legendary prime weapons. That's it.

Sorry for the long reply.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:31 AM   #28
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Speaking of plot threads that haven't gone anywhere (and will likely end quickly due to the number of episodes left in the season if they do use them): YO KNOCK OUT, made any progress with that synthetic energon?
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:09 AM   #29
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GogDog was spot on with his description of MECH as a paramilitary unit - with it's ranks most likely being constituted out of whatever rogues Silas could cull from the SEALs, Force Recon, Delta, and Special Forces, MECH was probably much like any other special operations unit. Tightly knit, doing everything together, all oriented on a common goal.

However, Prime being Prime...I'm not certain that the writers have the sort of background on special operations personnel that people like myself and GogDog have - and if they do, I'm pretty certain that they don't reasonably expect a large chunk of the audience to have a working knowledge of special operations either. I've found that descriptors such as "special forces" and "black ops" conjure up a certain stereotype in the minds of civilians and others not associated closesly with the military - visions of black clad men carrying rifles with lasers sights, killing their enemies clandestinely, performing their duties outside of the established rules of engagement. It's a rather romanticized version of what these operators do, and I've seen an operator get a good chuckle when a private asked him if they really do that sort of thing. So, by classifying Silas and MECH as rogue operators, the writers of the show are able to give the organization a certain credence, that these are highly skilled, highly trained men who know how to work in the shadows, and worst of all - they're the enemy, so we should reasonably be in fear of them and their capabilities. And since their leader is a Colonel - a rank many not understand the significance of - simply the use of that rank indicates he is a very important person to the lay viewer, who knows that a colonel is more important that some sergeant or captain.

Which brings me to Silas. Truly one of my favorite characters in the show, he's depicted as intelligent and ruthless, the sort of person who is not above forming casual alliances, then breaking them when it suits him - I'm sure Airachnid and Starscream will back me up here. Silas has been intrigued with Cybertronians since "Convoy" - we've known all along that it's been intention to somehow create one of his own. Cybertronians are an "ultimate" sort of weapon for him, an unstoppable force that, if controlled, will help him acheive whatever ends he originally envisioned for MECH. We all thought that this process, "Project Chimera", came to its fruition with Nemesis Prime - the combination of a human operator and a giant, transforming robot. It sure seemed that way to me.

But how much do we actually know about Project Chimera? I know people have bandied about many different opinions as to it's nature, even using the very definition of the word "chimera" to try and draw conclusions. What if Project Chimera's ultimate goal was that what we witnessed in "The Human Factor" - not a combination of human ability and Cybertronian strength and power, but a true melding of the two? I mean, I know it's never been stated outright, but could this truly have been the direction that Project Chimera was heading in? I feel it could have been, had MECH been able to work through the initial bugs and hiccups with the control interface we saw for Nemesis Prime. Silas' grave injuries and the discovery of Breakdown's corpse likely offered MECH an early opportunity to put theory into practice - the reasoning probably being, if Silas dies, well he was so terribly injured that he wasn't going to make it anyway; but if he lives, he'll surely reward us somehow for fulfilling his ultimate objective.

In any event, for Silas, I'm reasonably certain that the events of "Nemesis Prime", and the injuries he sustained in it left him not only broken physically, but affected him mentally. According to what we know, and don't have to extrapolate, Silas was left in a coma, with his body shattered - who can tell what sort of damage his brain suffered before he was revived? And when he comes to he finds that his body has been wedded and melded to that of one of the lifeforms he had so recently been trying to replicate - or, if you will, finds that his men have succeeded in taking him to what he perceives as the ultimate rung on the power ladder? And we have seen what Silas does when he has no more use for something - when Starscream was of no further benefit to MECH, Silas turned right on him and harvested his T-Cog. While I'd like to think that as a member of special operations unit, Silas feels the fraternity and comradeship with his men - but I see him ultimately as an opportunist, who is as likely to slit your throat when you back is turned as he is to shake your hand, depending on what's in it for him.

So, in my view of things, Silas had gained the power he set out to attain. MECH was of no more use to him - so he destroyed it. Silas doesn't seem the type to leave loose ends laying around behind - at least not loose ends that can potentially bring him down. I found his actions surprising, but when I thought about it - to be IN character with how I perceived Silas. Of course, YMMV.

Just thought I'd add my to the discussion.

And I do hope that since Silas-Breakdown's end was never actually seen, only implied...we see more of him in the future somehow. Having Clancy Brown around can only help the show.

Signature courtesy of Bumbebee765 - thanks bro!

The Sky to her Warp, the Thunder to her Cracker, the Star to her Scream

Last edited by FatalT 71; 10-05-2012 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:40 AM   #30
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I'm looking forward to seeing him as a head in a jar in future episodes. Possibly as the middle square in Hollywood Squares.
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