WTF @ TFW - Revenge of the Fallen Special

TransRanger · 07-08-2009, 01:23 AM

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Originally Posted by GogDog

Well, for one, I think our use of the term "racist" was a bit of hyperbole, and we very much were using it in a sense to describe general stereotyping or prejudice in general. I thought the way Vangelus emphasis the word racist in a humorous sense made that point clear. I'm sorry it did not.

It's cool. Thanks for the reply, btw.

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I guess I'm just out of the loop, but since when are buck teeth and big ears a black stereotype? I have seen the buckteeth stereotype used for white hillbillies far more often than anyone else. The funny thing is, I saw no one complaining about the twins' appearance being offensive until they started talking the way they did. Then all of a sudden it's offensive? So it's ok to make fun of people with buckteeth, but if they are black with buck teeth, it's suddenly wrong. Hmm. I think this goes back to the point I made in the podcast about people decrying these "stereotypes" are really the mains ones propagating them.

There's no insider loop. And it's not the individual characteristics that do it on their own. It's the package and context. Shoot..... I've had this discussion before. And it can get heated. And it's hard to explain if you're dead set on not seeing it.

Like I said.. I'm not someone walking around with a magnifying glass searching for racism where I can find it and then jumping and pointing at it like I've found gold.

This didn't take any searching. You gotta learn to see things from a different point of view. And from mine........ Mudflap and Skids just made me wince the entire time I saw them on screen. My friend who gets even less offended than myself was warned about Mud and Skids and he blew it off. Said people were being too sensitive. When they showed up, even he was like, "Oooh my god........ whoa.... wow...."

Just saying the offense doesn't come from nowhere, nor is it something I want to see or feel.

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Again, like we said on the podcast, I know just as many whites, Asians, and Hispanics that talk like that as I do blacks. It's done mostly because with today's youth, it's a popular subculture, and they adopt it. Whether they are born into the environment, or do it by choice. Either way, that lifestyle, and way of talking, breaks racial boundaries, and for people to immediately assume it's targeting black subculture is, frankly, ignorant to today's society in my opinion.

In my time, I've known folk of all walks of life talking like that, buuut...... hmmm... then I guess the Doctor could have been portraying someone who enjoys emulating crazy Nazi German doctors?

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You just made my point. All of the examples you used are lifestyles chosen by people. It has nothing to do with race. People are born with the color of their skin, but they are not born as geeks, toy collectors, and gamers. 7 years ago I was not collecting toys. If a movie made fun of it, I probably would have thought it was funny. What would I do now? Suck it the hell up.

Weeellllll, the backgrounds aren't the same really. One...... has some history and the other is toy collecting.

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PLEASE don't think I am trying to be insensitive or tell you that your opinions do not matter. But in a world that is so close to getting rid of this racial crap, so many people are holding onto it and decrying it everywhere at the slightest hint. I'm not accusing you of doing that, but I think we all need to lighten up a little bit, and when an actual case of blatant racism/prejudice/discrimination/whatever appears, we can all tackle it together.

Trust me, I've unfortunately had to deal with just being a person instead of a color for the better portion of my life. Pointing out why something like this would be offensive is NOT something I look forward to doing, nor do I keep an watchful eye out for it. And yeah, all America is doing a good job with growing up and beyond racial stuffnjunk, but I'm telling you... as an easy going guy with an even more easy going friend when it comes to this.... Mudflap and Skids is a step back while laughing.

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For the record, I DID NOT like the way the twins were portrayed. Like Seth, I think it's a lazy way to create a character. The opposite in my opinion would be Wall-E. That movie created believable, unique characters without using stereotypes at all. I was disappointed to see the characters in RotF written the way they were.

I have mad hate for irritating comedy relief characters. So, I already hate them. On top of it, they had to be the worst portrayal (with big cartoony lips to boot!) of a negative black stereotype to be laughed at.

Just not cool.

I really wish they'd just put that time in to fleshing out Sideswipe and Arcee.

Alright.... time to crash.

Thanks for the reply and keep up the good work on the podcst.

GogDog · 07-08-2009, 01:34 AM

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Originally Posted by TransRanger

Thanks for the reply and keep up the good work on the podcst.

Thanks. And thanks for not taking anything I said personally. It's nice to be able to have discussions like this without it breaking into a flame war.

Vangelus · 07-08-2009, 01:34 AM

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Originally Posted by TransRanger

Weeeellll, on the point of the German stereotype, it is different. Like you said, different folk from different backgrounds have different thresholds for things. If we had a significant actual German population in America and they were to be offended , I wouldn't wonder why.

Bear in mind, I give the population of America no more preference than the populations of Canada and Germany.

I view the globe as one big happy family waiting to be ruled by my fist.

Seth Buzzard · 07-08-2009, 08:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Paxtin

Cool. Listening to the whole thing, It definitely sounds like a lot of people generally had the same feeling about this film, in that it had a great idea that just did not play out in the end result.

I also work with a couple guys that have seen it and they just flat out loved it. Criticisms I brought up had never acquired to them. This is very much a movie people are either going to love or hate with very few able to walk that fine line down the middle.

sparktower · 07-08-2009, 09:44 AM

The Homicidal Prime discussion was priceless. So hard not to laugh on the train... Always love this podcast, but this was the best! It's killing me though, because I swear it only makes me wanna buy more toys. If nothing else I'm convinced I gotta have ROTF Leader Prime. Curse you sirs!

Anyway, can't wait to listen to the next one^^

TransRanger · 07-08-2009, 09:45 AM

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Originally Posted by GogDog

Thanks. And thanks for not taking anything I said personally. It's nice to be able to have discussions like this without it breaking into a flame war.

I run a forum of my own, so I unfortunately know alllllll too well how much it sucks when people just can't have a conversation. No worries, big man.

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Bear in mind, I give the population of America no more preference than the populations of Canada and Germany. I view the globe as one big happy family waiting to be ruled by my fist.

Get in line, Van.... you speak to the man that walks the path of heaven and will rule over all.

I sent it in an email to Vangelus, but it's worth saying here... when you guys went in to the Murderer Prime rants, I was put in to tears laughing and had to turn the podcast off so that I could finish work.

Good job.

Skeeve · 07-08-2009, 11:15 AM

Very impressed with the open-minded discussion on the twins. I definitely side very firmly in the camp that I don't believe the stereotypes were malicious, but yeah, duh, they were stereotypes. I don't really buy the argument that gangster culture is raceless because of the existence of non-black people co-opting the culture...because at the end of the day, that's what it is, co-opting black culture. I don't know about anybody else, but I wouldn't feel confident enough in a post-racial America to screech in ebonics three feet away from a black man, even today. Some people still find that behavior offensive or at least irritating because hey, it's people from another race cherry picking stereotypes from black culture (ebonics, thug life) and imitating them because they think it's all part of being "cool."

So you could say that there were a few extra degrees of separation in the stereotypes (robots imitating white people imitating black people vs. robots imitating black people) but trace that chain to the end, and it's still black stereotypes. And no, I don't think it's racist to recognize these stereotypes, because the wide-spread existence of wannabe ganstas imitating black people is proof enough of their existence.

Paxtin · 07-08-2009, 12:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Seth Buzzard

I also work with a couple guys that have seen it and they just flat out loved it. Criticisms I brought up had never acquired to them. This is very much a movie people are either going to love or hate with very few able to walk that fine line down the middle.

Well sure. Statistically you’ll always have that.
I guess what I ment was those of us who do have criticisms, over outright rage, about the film generally seem to share the same or similar views on it.

Prowl · 07-08-2009, 02:08 PM

Just heard this (sorry so late). Awesome podcast. Great and hilarious work covering the movie, especially the Wheelie discussion. Badass, guys, keep up the great work.

It's funny Gog, my thoughts were exactly like yours regarding the racism crap... This is from another thread.

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Originally Posted by Windcharger

No, my friend. You just said it. Because Nowhere in that movie was there an indication that Mud and Skid were black. You took elements of their character and stereotyped them enough to make the assumption that they were black and now state that this association also relates to level of intelligence. The movie never stated this, you did. And if you say, "Well it's obvious," Then please tell me why it's obvious, because the movie didn't enlighten me enough on this.

Optimus Scourge · 07-09-2009, 01:40 AM

Finally finished this one up, great discussion, guys and I concur with you Gog, that the Twins were not racist, just a stereotype. All dem kids be tawkin dat ways, of all ethnic backgrounds, I really don't find them offensive at all.

Could have used more Sideswipe, tho. Damn, he's good!

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