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Why can't Hasbro be this honest with us?

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Old 01-10-2013, 01:42 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Psycho Grimlock View Post
I want a direct source quotation from a Hasbro rep ("has been said" does not constitute a verifiable source) detailing the exact method of production of both molds and injection production, and if this process has been changed or modernized in any way in the last decade. My reasoning is simple; automated CNC machining can produce very detailed product molds for injection resin products for orders of magnitude less cost than previous methods of mold production, making mold storage irrelevant.
Automated CNC machining and resin molds don't translate directly to the costs of the high-impact steel molds that Hasbro uses, which are far more expensive. It was only a few years ago, within 5 at least, where the Hasbro guys at BotCon candidly dropped that rough price range, so I doubt the processes have changed too much. In theory, casting and recasting may be made possible, but such processes always lose detail in the transfer. I'm pretty sure they still form the steel plates directly.

And yes, Hasbro still stores the molds. They don't recycle them. That way they don't have to manufacture a new, precision steel mold from scratch five years down the road when they want to release a new recolour/exclusive or something.

And that still doesn't factor in the manpower, the costs of which aren't going to get any cheaper. They don't just contract out to anybody. They've got their own specific team of experts who've mastered the art of Transformers design. They're going to pay those guys a pretty decent rate to make sure they stay with the Transformers brand, and not jump ship to Mattel or Bandai or something.



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Unlike many here, I can separate a realistic look at business operations from blind borderline-religious devotion, and while that seems to have stirred them to serious amounts of butt-hurt and nerd rage, it is just a simple idea: there is far more information out there that is either not being publicized or is being ignored and I would like to see others be more factually well-informed, that's all. So for the curious, I hope you've seen some new information which will be helpful, to the respectful discussion partners, I thank you, and to the trolls, I assure you that your plastic robot toys and the company that makes them love you no less than it did before my comments were posted.
See, that's not the argument you've been giving at all.

If it were, then I'd be largely agreeing with you. Hasbro is not beholden to outline their methodologies and trade secrets just because their fans are starting to get a little uppity. That's just business, and the nature of competition.

But when I joined this conversation, you were trying to paint Hasbro as being deceptive, which is far from the case. As far as large corporations go, they are remarkably transparent with their fans, using the Club and BotCon to share all manner of internal stories with the masses, and give advanced sneak peaks at product lines and the like.

They had no obligation at all to explain DotM and Prime FE's sudden cancellation, and while perhaps not as timely as the Star Wars letter that kicked this discussion off (because at the time, they were still refusing to give up the hunt for retailer support, so the lines weren't officially off the cards), it was still unnecessary, and still provided enough time for fans to hunt down the Japanese releases if they were desperate enough.

Quite frankly, your suspicions are misplaced. It's one thing to be cynical, and not completely swallow all the rosy projections for the future that Hasbro feeds us, but it's another thing entirely to be imagining ulterior motives behind everything they do. Massaging demographics numbers and whatnot like you've been going on about, to dubious ends.

There absolutely no reason to act like that, because Hasbro's statements generally jibe with reality. DotM and FE's cancellation did coincide with a massive economic downturn, and a glut of product on the shelves that saw to retailers ordering less product. If the adult fan demographics were high enough, then Hasbro should be able to convince Wal-Mart et al to relax their standards, and be able to release things like Masterpieces mass retail instead of just store-exclusives, and possibly beyond. But obviously, as that hasn't happened, Hasbro doesn't have the clout to make that call, and so they still struggle. But they're still supporting the Classics/Universe/Generations/etc. lines despite lack of mainstream media support for those characters, so obviously they still put some faith in the fans, while still tailoring the lines to be suitable for the main target audience as well.


So please, do get off your high horse and stop acting like you're a shepherd among a flock of sheep. We are quite capable of critical thought on our own, thank you very much. There is absolutely no reason not to take Hasbro on their word, because reality will back them up on it. We're not talking about some shady investment company, that can hide behind mountains of paperwork and maybe not get caught. This is a manufacturing firm. If they were being duplicitous about the nature of their product, then it would show through the quality of their product, through consumer support, and through their quarterly investor's reports and other market analysis.


If this is instead one of those classic "I'm a fan who's smarter than everyone, including an entire army of accountants and market analysts, and if Hasbro would listen to me, they'd be making a billion more dollars" ploys, pssht, we've heard that one before. Quite simply, time will vindicate you on that one. Their investor's reports will either continue to show steady rises, with credit to the Transformers brand, showing that they know what they're doing, despite Fandom's insistence otherwise. If we instead see a meteoric fall, well then there may or may not be merit to the Fandom's inane rantings. But either way, Hasbro will adjust their business strategy to cope, just as Mattel has after they lost retailer support.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:37 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by mx-01 archon View Post
Automated CNC machining and resin molds don't translate directly to the costs of the high-impact steel molds that Hasbro uses, which are far more expensive. It was only a few years ago, within 5 at least, where the Hasbro guys at BotCon candidly dropped that rough price range, so I doubt the processes have changed too much. In theory, casting and recasting may be made possible, but such processes always lose detail in the transfer. I'm pretty sure they still form the steel plates directly.

And yes, Hasbro still stores the molds. They don't recycle them. That way they don't have to manufacture a new, precision steel mold from scratch five years down the road when they want to release a new recolour/exclusive or something.

And that still doesn't factor in the manpower, the costs of which aren't going to get any cheaper. They don't just contract out to anybody. They've got their own specific team of experts who've mastered the art of Transformers design. They're going to pay those guys a pretty decent rate to make sure they stay with the Transformers brand, and not jump ship to Mattel or Bandai or something.
So, I'm supposed to take it at face value that you have all of this information firsthand and it is accurate, especially since your first sentence makes it plain that you have no idea what CNC actually IS?

I know... I know... You're just trolling and making up MORE BS now, but seriously, would it kill you to just provide ANY reputable source?

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See, that's not the argument you've been giving at all.
I'm stopping right here and not dignifying your BS straw-man, made up version of things I haven't said with any kind of reasonable debate because you have made it abundantly clear that your intent is ONLY to troll.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:25 AM   #123
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You raise some good points, many of which I have already brought up in this very thread. I have NOT said that Hasbro should cater more towards collectors; I have simply stated that the established belief among collectors about their buying power is distorted.
Are you implying that collectors are contributing more to Hasbro's sales? Because in my part of the world (Asia) kids are still the main customers. How do I know because I know of 'inside' info. And my sources have been so spot-on with reissues and Masterpiece releases.

Releasw plans change and Fort Max's reissue was actually pushed back due to uncertain economic conditions.

mx-01 was also correct in stating the reasons why FE was not originally not released in the US. There was a 'glut' and US retailers didn't want more TF toys clogging the shelves like DOTM toys were. That's why the 'final' wave (Wheeljack) didn't hit retail in the US but enjoyed Asia release.

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Originally Posted by Psycho Grimlock View Post
So, I'm supposed to take it at face value that you have all of this information firsthand and it is accurate, especially since your first sentence makes it plain that you have no idea what CNC actually IS?

I know... I know... You're just trolling and making up MORE BS now, but seriously, would it kill you to just provide ANY reputable source?



I'm stopping right here and not dignifying your BS straw-man, made up version of things I haven't said with any kind of reasonable debate because you have made it abundantly clear that your intent is ONLY to troll.
I may have some disagreements with mx-01 but the dude's no troll and he is spot on with the mould information.

It has been stated a couple of times that Hasbro/Takara retains and stores the moulds and they are used a lot of times. So much so, that some have been damaged like the G1 Jazz mould.

And damage or loss of the moulds, have prevented TakaraTomy from reissuing the remaining original G1 cars (Wheeljack, Sunstreaker & Mirage) as well as the Dinobots.You can find the above information on the internet.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:39 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by mx-01 archon View Post

If this is instead one of those classic "I'm a fan who's smarter than everyone, including an entire army of accountants and market analysts, and if Hasbro would listen to me, they'd be making a billion more dollars" ploys, pssht, we've heard that one before.
Circle gets the square.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:39 AM   #125
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Okay, it was fun for a bit, but I think it might be time for people to set him to 'ignore.' He's got his subjective evidence-based mindset, and he's not changing it.

Best to drop it like it's hot.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:17 AM   #126
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Okay, it was fun for a bit, but I think it might be time for people to set him to 'ignore.' He's got his subjective evidence-based mindset, and he's not changing it.

Best to drop it like it's hot.
Yes, you should totally put your fingers in your ears and scream LA LA LA instead of engaging in this thoughtful discussion.

Personally I will continue reading with interest.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:28 AM   #127
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Like when they couldn't find a market for the First Edition figures on the usa and told us so, but admitted that a lot of fans really wanted them and that they were still trying to get them to us again in some form, and then they totally did?

Yeah I wish they did that.
Actually I saw a First Edition Bulkhead at Toys R Us in Modesto, CA the day after Christmas. That is the only FE figure I've seen though.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:30 AM   #128
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Yes, you should totally put your fingers in your ears and scream LA LA LA instead of engaging in this thoughtful discussion.

Personally I will continue reading with interest.
You know, I actually was going to give a long-winded reply to this, but at this point, I think the LA LA LA option makes more sense. The 'thoughtful' discussion has been out the window for a good long while, but keep on keepin' on.

It's waffle time.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #129
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Okay, it was fun for a bit, but I think it might be time for people to set him to 'ignore.' He's got his subjective evidence-based mindset, and he's not changing it.

Best to drop it like it's hot.
But you said:

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Because, once in a while, it is fun to get into an internet argument, especially with someone who's so adamant about their erroneous stance.

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Old 01-10-2013, 06:46 PM   #130
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Yes, you should totally put your fingers in your ears and scream LA LA LA instead of engaging in this thoughtful discussion.

Personally I will continue reading with interest.
Thank you for an even-handed, objective look. It's nice to see someone else post in this thread for any reason other than to continue a flame war. I'm well aware that this is a public forum with posters of all ages, mindsets, and motives and the nature of pseudo-anonymity allows for much less civil discourse than most folks would have in public.

From the hostility directed my way, you'd think I'd said something like MP-04 is MUCH better than MP-10 (which it is, IMO ), but it's the nature of the beast. The sheer ludicrousness of most of my erstwhile sparring partners' accusations towards me is mind boggling, and I simply cannot understand why the things I have posted are so strongly offensive. (I did like the 'smarter than everyone else' one, though; that one's pretty transparent in its motive.)

Ahh..the internet: land of millions of over-empowered insecurity complexes.

Anyone want to discuss that Walmart has probably been using a similar re-stock extortion scenario to beat up Hasbro for lower wholesale prices?

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