For a while now, in various threads involving the MP line, many people keep trying to bring up the idea of remolding Bumblebee into Cliffjumper, because obviously that's how it works. These people inevitably get shot down by others (myself included) who repeatedly point out that the original Cliffjumper and Bumblebee (and Bumper) were all different molds that share a couple parts and the same engineering scheme. And then the cycle repeats. But the point here is that it is widely accepted (at least by those that look at them) that Bumblebee and Cliffjumper (and Bumper) are categorically separate molds.

So why is it that people keep calling CW Streetwise and First Aid retools? There is just as much difference between Streetwise and Dead End or First Aid and Off-road as there is between Bumblebee/Cliffjumper/Bumper. And for all we know the mold were made at the same time and the Stunticon versions just came first. Not to mention that both molds (at least in the case of Dead End and Streetwise) have their own separate retools, just like Cliffjumper -> Hubcap.

As far as I'm concerned, Dead End and Streetwise, and Off-road and First Aid, are entirely separate molds that share a few parts and the same engineering scheme. I don't get why more people don't see that, yet see Bumblebee/Cliffjumper/Bumper as separate.

 

Well those are retools. How can you say first aid is a new bold when they have the same legs and arms and pretty much same chest.

A new mold is like prime arcee to chromia. Shares same skeleton but almost 90% different unlike the ones you mentioned.

 

"Pretty much the same chest" is not the same chest. It still takes the creation of a new mold to be made. The original poster considers the similar arms and legs (the lower legs on First Aid are different, I believe) to be in a similar pattern to Bumblebee/Cliffjumper.

In honesty, I never noticed it and got used to calling them remolds. I may need to review the toys before having my say in the matter.

 

I haven't done a complete catalog of parts on Streetwise, but I can tell you this - on First Aid every single part made from white plastic (which includes the the head and the entire torso except the combiner peg) is an entirely new mold. The red and black plastic parts are shared.

 

Retools are the same transformation using modified parts that produce a variant alt or bot mode from what we had previously.

Swindle is a retool of Rook, regardless of what people say.
RiD Drift is a retool of RiD Bumblebee. And a brilliant one at that.

New head and colors? Repaint.
New head and colors? New limbs? Retool.

When somebody refers to a "mold", they mean figures that share the same core mold...including retools.

CW Quickslinger and Blast-Off? Repaints.
CW Prime and Battle Core? Repaints with a new head.
CW Prime and Motormaster? Retools of the same semi.
CW Onslaught and Hot Spot? More extensive retools of the same base.

 

The CW ones aren't really remolded. They knew from the start that they were making First Aid, Streetwise, etc. Those parts are part of the mold from the start.

A remold is something that usually comes later. The TT Legends Blackarachnia, Slipstream, and Nightbird are remolds. They're older figures with newly made parts. The Armada beasts (Rhinox, Cheetor, Airazor, and Predacon) were all slight retools, as well as Cybertron Longrack, Blurr, Runamuck, and Buzzsaw. The upcoming Adventure Grimlock from TT is a heavy retool of FOC Grimlock.

 

So then, more like pre-tools...???...

 

Share some of the same molded pieces- retool.

Similar engineering yet all parts are completely different tooling- new mold.

It's that simple.

Regarding MP Cliffjumper, it would be more economical to make him a reshell of Bumblebee. Even if their original toys were completely separate molds, the MP figures are based on the original cartoon animations models which were very similar.

 

I don't own Drift, but going by pictures alone I can't see how that's possible other than the feet fold up the same way. Is it really a retool?

 

this.

retools are different than repaints.. a retool is the same mold, only dressed differently.

if all of these were entirely new molds.. they wouldn't all share an almost exact same look.

i mean, if they're going to make entirely new molds for each of these figures, they would've differentiated them up a bit more.

as for a masterpiece cliffjumper.. i would think that something like that would share similar transformation mechanisms, but be very different considering how different the alt mode would be.

these hasbro molds were clearly made so that they could be versatile. instead of giving each character a new mold, they just change the existing one a little bit and throw on a new head.

 

it's not a retool.. it just shares a similar transformation idea but are completely different.

 

That's what I thought.

Classics Tracks and Wheeljack - THOSE are retools of one another (I don't remember which came first).

If the figure has a different head and paint scheme but literally everything else is the same, would that count as a retool or repaint?

 

To the original question, when it's a completely new mold, it's not a retool. FOC Sideswipe and Jazz look nothing alike and have completely different vehicle modes, but they are retools of each other. G2 Smokescreen (and his many, many redecos) and Energon Starscream, while they have similar Transformations, are not retools of each other, they both have 100% original tooling, just a similar transformation sequence.

Also, to be specific, none of those are repaints. The fandom often uses the word incorrectly, they're all redecos. Redeco is when the plastic and paints are different, but the base mold is the same. Repaint is when the figure is exactly the same including the same color(s) plastic, just a different paint job. Repaints are rare, but there are several out there, such as Legends Universe and Animated Bumblee, who are the same plastic figure, just a slightly different paint job.

 

I was going to say if those guys weren't all retools of the same few molds, then it doesn't make any sense why they'd share near exact transformation schemes, but then I saw this:


The "skeleton" of the figure (inner legs, hip piece, combiner connection peg in center of the chest, upper arms, wheels) is present in both figures, but as you point out everything else is different enough that it has to be a different molding used for them - I.E. look at their feet, the "combiner hand/foot socket" ends up on opposite sides. If this was a simple retool job, then it should have the socket end up on the same foot both times, in this case the left foot.

But then there's the fact First Aid comes with the exact same axe and combiner hand/foot weapon as Offroad. If First Aid isn't a retool, then why does he have the same exact accessories?

This isn't the first time we've seen something along these lines, however. We know Generations Sandstorm is a super-heavy Generations Springer retool, but almost every single part of the two figures simply do not match in that respect.

Or more recently; the Seeker Leaders from Jetfire's Leader.

What could be happening here is Hasbro blurring the lines between what is a new mold and what is really a super-elaborate retool. In effect, it's more investment into each individual mold to have an extreme level of difference in versions, but overall less money spent than on entirely different molds altogether since it is the same single figure only radically altered to pass as an entirely new mold save for a few key details. So, essentially, yes, they are still retools technically, but only by the slightest of margins.

Wheeljack was the first originally planned for the mold, but Tracks got released first (and incidentally is the slightly harder of the two to find thanks to RtS getting shafted by retailers hard).

Retool. Generally that's actually what most retools are - just the same figures in different colors and a new head, anything more is rare though it's not been as rare over the past few years...

 

g2 air raid is a straight up repaint. repaint.
g1 hoist is more like a figure with somethings exchanged for new parts, from trail breaker.
BW 2 Thrustor is a remold of BW dinobot.
BW K9 is a complete resculpt from BW wolfang. many people consider it just a remold, or a repaint, that but they are such a totally different sculpt that they are closer to being new molds. but not quite.
however energon starscream, is NOT a repaint or remold of
g2 smokescreen, they are completely new molds. just with similar transformations.
now, the base with Ikard, can be considered a one time use mold. that is a figure that has never been used since. even if the the figure with it is just a straight up repaint.

 

I have to wonder, if in fact, there are 2 molds being made. Before a figure might've had two head designs to chose from, now they're getting four head designs and two full bodies -- exactly double. And since these are seemingly being made via computer these days, perhaps they just copy-paste molds to serve as a basis for a new one, keeping all the basic engineering but changing all the aesthetics. So instead of using Dead End a whopping 8 times they're "only" using him 5 times, and using Prowl 3 times.

 

There seems to be a lot of shared engineering with figures nowadays, and that is really blurring the line between new mold and retool.

 

This is confusing me too. I felt I had a pretty good handle on repaints and retools until the CW Aerialbots, specifically Fireflight, Skydive, and Air Raid. All three have a similar chest/combiner port set up, identical leg transformations and transformation related to plane kibble. They all have different kibble and slightly different molded details. Fireflight and Air Raid have similar arm transformations. Skydive's arm transformation is completely different. Air Raid and Skydive share similar leg molding.

All that screams retools all around to me but apparently that isn't the common opinion. From what I understand Fireflight is considered an original mold while Air Raid is a retool of Skydive. Which makes not one lick of sense. If any of the three is truly a different mold it'd be Skydive with Air Raid being a Fireflight remold.

 

The difference is harder to differentiate now. There's no hard line. Before, we could have used the words re-shelled (FOC Jazz & Sideswipe) but now that they are doing it for the robot mode arms/legs/body it more re-limbed.

Suggestions?
Repaint - 0% physical changes.
Retool - 0-33% physical changes.
??? - 34%-66% difference.
Different mold - 67-100% different.

 

If you're being pedantic, you should stop calling redecos "repaints".

A repaint is the same figure using the same plastic colors but with different paint. So basically stuff like "Lighting Bumblebee" etc. wth unchanged plastic layout.
A redeco is the same figure using different plastic colors and different paint.