No wonder Transformers toys have messed up scale

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Nevermore, Jul 30, 2015.

  1. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Hasbro doesn't even know what "scale" means.

    They keep throwing around phrases like "Deluxe scale", "Voyager scale", "Leader scale", "Legends scale" and "Legion scale".
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.476919882378211.1073741841.146805978722938&type=1
    Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Deluxe Class Protectobot Blades|Action Figures & Collectibles|Action Figures|for ages AGES 8+|Hasbro
    http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...ERS GENERATIONS 2015 Product Descriptions.pdf

    That's not how scale works! Hasbro says "scale" when they mean "size class" or "price point". "Scale" refers to the proportional ratio of a model or copy in relation to the original (or to another model or copy).

    Simply put, "scale" in its original meaning is a relative term that refers to a ratio. Hasbro uses it as an absolute term to refer to a (more or less) fixed size.

    So don't expect scale from Transformers as long as Hasbro doesn't even know what "scale" actually is!
     
  2. KnightHawkke

    KnightHawkke Flynn Lives

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    I thought they were supposed to be "class" now?
     
  3. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    "Class" is the official "name", but Hasbro have also used "scale" as a descriptive term.
     
  4. CountDrunkula

    CountDrunkula Sturdy Beard

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    I'm sure they actually know what the word "scale" means despite occasionally misusing it.

    The real issue with scale as far as TFs are concerned is a certain segment of the fandom that cannot let a completely invented "issue" go.
     
  5. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    Let's be fair here most of the fandom doesn't know what it means either, generally it get used instead of size. So it's not like hasbro are unique in this failing.
     
  6. koonfasa

    koonfasa Well-Known Member

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    I don't do scale.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. tekering

    tekering The Ref

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    It could be worse. Mattel sells several die-cast Star Trek ships they claim are 1:50 scale:

    Hot Wheels® 1:50 Star Trek™ Assortment

    According to Mattel, this toy is 42 feet long. :dunce 
     
  8. Sam

    Sam Arrival

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    Words can take on new meaning due to popular usage.

    See what I did there? English baby!
     
  9. GR1ML0CK

    GR1ML0CK Dinobot Commander

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    Scale exists but its up to us to put our figures in their proper place. For example i have leader skyfire posed with voyager springer and brainstorm as well as deluxe warpath. Superion is posed with deluxe optimus prime and legends windblade and powerglide. Leader megatron is posed with voyager blitzwing and voyager igear raptor. Deluxe galvatron, cyclonus, and scourge are with legends insecticons.
     
  10. Papavader

    Papavader Active Member

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    Scale in TF? :D 

    If they put out TF in scale with each other, we would run out of space to place our toys.

    Let say we take Masterpiece Prowl as our base. He is 8.2 inches long. Now the car it is based on mesure roughly 173 inches so about 1/21.

    Now let's take Masterpiece Starscream (mp11). The toy is 13.5 inches long. Considering that the jet he is based on mesures approx. 765 inches accross, his scale is quite different, in the vincinity of 1/56 - 1/57

    So what if we did put MP Starscream here to scale? Why, his toy would be about 3ft long, 3X the size!

    The only scale that matter, to me at least, in the bot sizes, approximating what we imagine their relative sizes to each other are.

    So... meh?;) 
     
  11. Smitty.1981

    Smitty.1981 Well-Known Member

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    Size classes are not fixed. Just look at Animated Deluxe Lockdown and Animated Voyager Bulkhead.

    Size class has to do with mass and engineering.
     
  12. Edgewise

    Edgewise Fanner

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    They are classes. They are pricepoints. Not sure they're size classes. That's a fan misnomer.

    However, it's also a misconception that size doesn't have a bearing on class and mass. Size and Mass are very much related and very much in specific ranges for each class/pricepoint. Look at Animated Deluxe Lockdown and Animated Voyager Bulkhead? Robot mode height does not equal size!

    A 1-dimensional measurement of a shape-changing 3-dimensional object is not any kind of reasonable assessment of it's size.

    When you buy pants do just care about the waist measurement? No, you have to look at the length as well. The size of pants takes 2 numbers to describe.
     
  13. Zeke1

    Zeke1 Well-Known Member

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    I just wish Hasbro would use a clearer system. Their naming convention is beyond confusing to the casual buyer because it's totally random. Words like "Voyager" or "Legend" are not any measure of size in any dictionary. What's next - "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" size? What's wrong with just using small, medium and large?
     
  14. User_136440

    User_136440 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I still don't understand why they changed the names of the size classes back in the Unicorn trilogy days. The old 'basic'/'deluxe'/'mega'/'ultra'/'super' naming system made sense, but arbitrarily giving some of them terms like 'scout', 'voyager' and 'leader' and then later on 'legion' and 'commander' even though that has nothing particularly to do with the size of the figure or the function/role of the character is a bit baffling really. I know that the original 'legends' class got its term because of the 'Legends of Cybertron' series of miniature figures, but I'm not sure why it now applies to what are now more or less the old basic size.

    It would be nice if they could just scale figures just to keep them in scale and not have to fit them into a particular size class and price point, but I suppose it's not particularly good practice business-wise, hence the AOE Dinobots, which should all be bigger than the rest of the figures, are mostly all deluxe class, the most popular and least expensive size.
     
  15. tekering

    tekering The Ref

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    And what's worse, they feel the need to change it... Suddenly, they're using "Legion" and "Warrior" instead. WTF, Hasbro?
     
  16. User_136440

    User_136440 Well-Known Member

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    Well 'Warrior' I understand. That's to distinguish the similarly sized figures in the more basic kid-aimed line from the deluxe figures in the Generations line.

    Because let's me honest, there's no way whatsoever there's anything deluxe (in the non-Hasbro-size-class meaning of the word) about the RID figures. Not that the Generations deluxe figures are that much more of a deluxe product in comparison, but you get my meaning. And Hasbro at least seem to think that they warrant the extra £1/$1 to justify it lol
     
  17. Blot

    Blot The most disgusting of all Transformers.

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    Why did "Voyager" become a size classification? Were their specific characters that went on voyages in A/E/C or whenever it started?
     
  18. User_136440

    User_136440 Well-Known Member

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    Someone in marketing must've thought it sounded better than 'mega' or 'maxcon' or whatever it became in Armada.
     
  19. Edgewise

    Edgewise Fanner

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    I think Voyager only started with Cybertron. So Vector Prime may be the original "Voyager" mold. Sorta makes sense. The word still doesn't really have any "size" connotation to it.

    I think words like "Basic", "Small", "Medium", etc aren't "interesting" enough for Marketing people to like them. "Basic", "Small", might be interpretted as having "negative" connotations by marketing. Like Starbucks sizes are "Tall", "Grande", "Vente"... you'd think "Tall" was a "large" size, but it's small. Or like I think don't fast food places have drink sizes "Kid size", "Medium", "Large", "Extra Large".... there is no small.

    So I think that's one reason against such pricepoint names.

    But why the change from basic/deluxe/mega/etc to scout/deluxe/voyager/etc and also new names like warrior? I kinda wonder if it's partly pricepoints were changing, so they needed to change the names to show they don't specifically relate to previous pricepoints.

    Like the first major change in names was with Armada. Deluxes became Supercons, but still $10 MSRP. While there was the $15 role play pricepoint, the ~$15 Mega pricepoint was really replaced with the $20 Maxcon pricepoint. A new pricepoint name could maybe be easier to swallow than retaining a pricepoint name and changing the price.

    Kinda makes me think perhaps Combiner Wars should've seen pricepoint name changes like this:

    "Legends" would become "Scout" or "Cyber"
    "Deluxe" would become "Trooper" or "Mega"
    "Voyager" would become "Captain" or "Ultra"
    "Leader" would become "Giant" or "Super"
    Titan keep as Titan

    Just a name change like that would change the complaints of "$16 dollars for a deluxe! :mad " (Would still be other complaints, but would change the psychology)

    GI Joe vehicles used to have a cool price point naming structure: "Alpha", "Bravo", "Delta"
     
  20. Mandrake921

    Mandrake921 Well-Known Member

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    i understand that complaints concerning scales are sometimes quite resonable, for example the updated RID bumblebee is too small to dislay with Prime figures hence disappointment. But you need to remember that TF set out from 1984 to be toys with high playability for children and not collector's items like Hottoys and Figuarts, so it really is kind of pointless to expect them to scale properly.