Species Sensitivity

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Asher Tye, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Asher Tye

    Asher Tye Cassetticon

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    Okay, so going back through my TFP blu-rays, I noticed something odd in the first season. It was something that also managed to show up in Animated, coincidentally enough with the same character. To a lesser extent it was played with in G1, though because it was the foible of a character who was recognized as "not a well bot" I'm guessing it was just being played for laughs.

    In one of the Season 1 episodes, Ratchet expresses a certain distaste for a monster truck rally Miko and Bulkhead are watching, referring to it as "bloodsport," no doubt do to the machines getting mangled over the drivers. In Animated, whilst exploring New Detroit, Ratchet there expressed revulsion at the displays of machine parts being sold in broad daylight (IIRC). And of course G1 had Red Alert who sought to free his fellow machines from om what he viewed as forced labor, but like I said he was never taken seriously.

    On the surface this would seem to emphasize the point that the characters are living machines, trying to create the analogy of a human walking though the market of an alien world to see hearts, lungs, arms, and other such viscera proudly on display. But doesn't the logic of this ring hollow when its noted that the Cybertronians themselves make use of nonsentient drones and vehicles? Items which would, after the course of us, need to get replacement parts and possibly upgrades, something that would naturally spark a market forsuch things?

    Transformers fans may not agree on much, but it is pretty widely understood that there is a difference between a freight truck and Optimus Prime, something it would seem the Cybertronians themselves also understand as we've seen them destroy true drones without remorse (BM Vehicons) and cannibalize nonsentient machines of both Earth and Cybertron when needed (Prime, Animated, RiD, Beast Wars). Are we seriously asked to believe cyber tears are universally shed when a cleaning module breaks down for the final time?

    It seems like some sort of distinction needs to be made between living machines and nonliving. After all, there are examples in other franchises of differently evolved creatures taking no affront when they catch sight of something like this. So why is it evolved machines seem to miss the pont?
     
  2. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    We have organ and tissue donors in real life. It's not that the Ratchet's have a problem with "spare parts" but that you don't see them on display in windows.

    Also, Animated Ratchet never felt for vehicles like the Prime version did. Prime Ratchet was either being sarcastic or stupid. He should recognise what a vehicle is.

    Though really, in TFA ratchet actually DID have a sentient vehicle friend, wheras in the Prime cartoon Ratchet had no such companion nor did they exist.
     
  3. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    On Prime Ratchet if you'll remember it was the gladiator pits that produced Megatron and Soundwave.
     
  4. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Veteran

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    Just like some people have extreme views that most of us don't take seriously, some Cybertronians do. I think the audience is expected to know the difference and we're expected to just roll our eyes at Ratchet's shenanigans.

    I liken it to the people who are extremists on what animal abuse is. Giving my dog a bath is abuse? Whatever kthxbye. I expect most Cybertronians would feel the same about Ratchet's views on a Monster truck rally being a "bloodsport."

    As for the Auto Part sales, I don't know why that would bother him if he had "normal" views on things. Didn't get it then and don't get it now. They were obviously parts of non living machines- for me I'd think it would be no different than seeing fake body parts on display every Halloween.


    Edit: Also, there seems to be a stigma against being used by a human. Like what we saw with Breakdown, dying in war was "ok", but having the body used by something weaker was an abomination.
     
  5. Asher Tye

    Asher Tye Cassetticon

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    While this might have been the analogy they were going for, the logic of it falls on its face when you know A. Ratchet wouldn't have any reason to see them as "organs and tissue" beyond the fact that they're mechanical in nature. He knows that human tech falls into the same category as Cybertronian tech, neither alive nor capable of sentient thought. At best he would see what was on display as crude prosthetics, and that's only assuming Cybertronian bodyparts have analogs to human machines. (A. Bumblebee's eagerness to install said parts might indicate they do, but then again he's more or less a kid and probably views "cyborg" parts with the same awe any kid would.) At worst A. Ratchet would see it in a similar vein as we would upon seeing spare parts for horses that have clearly been manufacted over harvested. Of course then that's saying there's little difference between a Cybertronian animal and a VW Bug. Logically Ratchet should look at said display with no more reaction than he would a rack of flux capacitors.

    Of course one might speculate his disapproval was more foreshadowing of the traumatic psychosis he recieved at the hand and hook of Lockdown, a Transformer who does harvest the living parts of other Transformers. But if this was the case I'd question how he was able to remain a medic for so long after the incident.

    I don't recall P. Ratchet ever feeling for machines anymore than A. Ratchet did. Again I think the intent was meant to be "Cybertronians are machines and thus would find offense at some of the ways humans use machines." (For BOTH series.) That this has been done twice now (four if you count Red Alert and A. Soundwave, five if you wanna squint and take Rattrap's comment to Cheetor to heart), I can't help but wonder if Hasbro is establishing an ill fitting pattern that could be better displayed in another way, particularly since they seem to torpedo the first analogy quite quickly.

    Yes, A. Ratchet had A. Omega Supreme for a friend. And the Autobots had thousands of other ships, a few of which were probably the basis of A. Omega's altmode. But I have a hard time believing A. Ratchet would have batted an optic had any of those ships been decommissioned and broken down for parts, or had any compunction with using said parts to keep A. Omega alive if he had to.
     
  6. DepthWave

    DepthWave Decepticon Storm Trooper.

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    People kill fish for fun, and nobody is interested that many of them are going fishing just for killing and hurting fishes, even though they would never need to eat it.
    Not to mention that humans cut off plants' parts and branches for fun and "making them grow "fluffy". Even though if you break humans' bones, those bones will become "thicker" as well.
    Hoi-polloi are double-standarded.
     
  7. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Again on Prime Ratchet he'd feel the same way with human sports like boxing or wrestling.

    Prime Ratchet has an aversion to glorification of violence as entertainment due to the brutality of the gladiatorial combat of old Cybertron and that it gave rise to the Decepticons.
     
  8. Prime Jetscream

    Prime Jetscream HE PULLS THE STRINGS AND HE MAKES THEM RING

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    I never really understood the jokes and general "conversations" about Cybertronians being offended or grossed out by car parts. Don't they have different anatomy anyway? Case in point; T-Cog and Spark.

    Prepare for the Monster Truck Uprising.
     
  9. Purple Heart

    Purple Heart Some other time..

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    G1 Tailgates tfwiki bio.

    Easily his most distinctive mental issue is his occasional inability to tell the difference between a non-living Earth machine and sentient robotic life such as himself. While it's a mistake many other Cybertronians have made at first, typically they learn quickly and let it go. Not Tailgate. Once he gets it into his head, his compassion turns to rage against the "enslavers", and is quite vocal in his desire to "free" the machines of Earth.
    That boy ain't right
     
  10. Asher Tye

    Asher Tye Cassetticon

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    True. And like I said, its not like they don't have their own vehicles and such, which would more than likely lead to "car parts" being something they encounter on their own planet.