Episode 37 "Flying Mind" Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Stardust262, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Kostya

    Kostya Destron

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    1. They fought together because they're on the same side and they're both lower level grunts than the likes of SS and Soundwave, it's to be expected.

    2. Knockout's only comment on their relationship was that Breakdown was his assistant. Not his partner, not his friend, his assistant. He clearly doesn't see him as equal.

    3. I don't get why you say they didn't show him not caring about Breakdown. In all the times they interacted I never once got the impression they were equals. The example you cited of "Fight?" "Drive" shows that Breakdown took orders from him. Notice how in that episode, Speed Metal, and Out of His Head it was always Knockout issuing commands to Breakdown and letting him do the dirty work.

    I will admit I originally thought they would develop them as friends. However after we got twenty episodes in and I learned more about Knockout I realized that he's not the type to care about Breakdown and we were never given any indication he did.

    Also it wasn't an absence of characterization. He just didn't ever act like he gave a damn what happened to Breakdown and treated him more like a lackey and an "assistant" than a friend. His lack of a reaction is perfectly in character and fits with what we've seen over the last 30 episodes.
     
  2. rxlthunder

    rxlthunder Banned

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    I quite like this new Knockout.
     
  3. Sinnertwin

    Sinnertwin Banned

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    Perfectly stated. Knockout's predominant character trait, above all others, is that he is an irredeemable narcissist. Him not caring about losing his assistant is perfectly in character.
     
  4. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    I'd really like a bit more clarity or clues on how the characters percieve each other.

    For example; I'd like to know what Knock out feels about his team mates and vice versa. Also, I'd like to be updated on how the relationships and perceptions change over time.
     
  5. LCDR Blindside

    LCDR Blindside Banned

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    So, things that didn't happen=missed opportunities=bad writers.

    That's the general feeling I get from you.
     
  6. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Yes, the two beign friendly to each it's the unexpected part.

    You see, there's this thing called Bad writing...
    And it was never shown he doesn't see him as an equal.

    They acted quite friendly to each other for non-equals, unlike Megatron and Starscream, who berate and scream at their thugs once every two seconds, Knockout and Breakdown not once sounded like that.

    Actually, no, it shows they're partners, he was asking for Knockout's opinion on the matter.

    ...And?

    No son, it is. Bad. writing.

    Bad writing, as in, a writer being an utter moron, that's his show's achiles Heel.

    Characterization is when you see a character reacing to things, Knockout never reacted to Breakdown's capture because the writers. are. fucking. INCOMPETENT.

    You say he doesn't care about Breakdown, yet we never saw him "not caring" about Breakdown, granted we never saw him caring about Breakdown either [though their relationship does point towards that direction], I'm not asking for him to have a PSTD, I'm asking him to show some reaction, disdain, rage, sadness, mild amusement. SOMETHING, he didn't. Because of reasons I have mentioned a hundred times over.

    It is not really that hard to understand that, people. It's lack of skill in the imbeciles who write this show, not Knockout's character.

    Not exactly. Say, you created a story. The main character has a brother. The main character dies. It is expected your brother will show some reaction to your demise. Him not showing is bad writing because that's what's supposed to happen, it's writing 101.

    But wasted opportunities also count as bad writing.
     
  7. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

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    Balder, when has it ever been mentioned, or even implied, that the guantlet or the immobiliser had enough power to take on an entire warship? The Immobiliser is a prototype tool, not a goddamn ship sinker, and the guantlet manipulates metal on the whole, not twisting it as you suggest. They simply aren't enough to take on the Nemesis, which is a f*ckload bigger then their intended targets.

    The Spark Extractor doesn't have to worry about the ship. All it needs to do is get close enough, and every last soul on the Nemesis would be toast; no amount of metal between them and the weapon would save them. Dump it on the ship's roof, bridge out, and come back later to find a ship full of dead people. Even the fact it was airborne and their intended victims were inside didn't seem to concern the Autobots, Optimus even telling Bumblebee that the only thing he had to worry about was getting out of the way when it went off. That's it. No "Oh crap, it's flying." or "They're all inside it.", just "Whatever, throw it at the thing."
     
  8. ThatCrazyGuy

    ThatCrazyGuy Well-Known Member

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    this for me. I just want them to acknowledge each other what they are doing and what has happened. I don't care that KO doesn't care about BD's death but he should acknowledge it, like glad he is gone or, more shine for me or something. I hate when characters are kinda in a vacuum in relation to events in the world.

    I personally think the writer's don't do the best job of connecting everybody in this regard.

    that said, I love KO and his personality.
     
  9. Sinnertwin

    Sinnertwin Banned

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    Then stop acting like he does. You literally just admitted you have no evidence that he cares.

    You understand that Knockout is a character being written, yes? He's not a real person whose actions are being interpreted incorrectly by the writers; they decide how he is portrayed. If he isn't shown giving a fuck, it's because HE DOESN'T GIVE ONE.

    Why do you think a lack of a reaction is not characterization? Are you one of those guys that thinks Soundwave has no character because he doesn't talk?

    Also, that entire example is a total strawman.
     
  10. Kostya

    Kostya Destron

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    Why should Knockout care at all? Why should he even be shown caring?

    He has been repeatedly shown as a narcissist and a sociopath. Him not caring about Breakdown is perfectly in character. It is not how I thought he would develop when I first saw him but regardless that is the way they developed him. You know why? Because Knockout does not care one bit about anyone but himself and will do anything to further his own goals including going against Megatron and siding with Starscream.
     
  11. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    On the same edge, it was never implied the Extractor can destroy something like the Nemesis.

    The function of the tool is to paralyze mechanical objects, hit the thrusters of the Nemesis with it, hit it again = Profit.

    And then, of course, Megatron will send his thugs, what do you do? Paralyze every single one of them with the Immobilizer, use the Gauntlet to not let Megatron escape, and throw the Spark Extractor to kill them all.

    Simple. Effective. Deadly.

    It would still be pretty useful to wreck the Nemesis' engines [try to put a magnet in your TV or computer, it will wreck its inner functions].

    Nor is the Extractor, honestly.

    You took it out of context. Here's what I said: We have no evidence he cares, we have no evidence he doesn't, but the general look of things point towards him caring. Simple.

    ...You're not making a nick of sense, of course I know he's a character, my entire point is about the writers failing to be even mildly competent.

    The writers choose how he is portrayed? Very well, then PORTRAY HIM, show him reacting to Breakdown's death [disdain, rage, indifference or whatever the blue Hell they want], instead of ignoring the issue.

    Because characterization means...well, character. If he doesn't show any character regarding Breakdown's death, therefore is not characterization.

    Actually, no, he's one of my favorite 'Cons. But he has a different case, his character is meant to be an enigma to the vieweres, and as such, he's always portrayed as being in the shadows, we never know fully what he's doing, but guess what, that's on purpose.

    It was an example of a relationship, not necessairly Breakdown's and Knockout's relationship.

    Then show he doesn't care. It's the last time I'll repeat that because it is really getting tiresome.
     
  12. rxlthunder

    rxlthunder Banned

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    It get it, it's the fandom and we're all perfectionists who only want the best, but seriously guys? It's a TV show aimed at kids. Sure, the writers can make it better, but still, it's all a matter of opinion. There can be one person on one side who absolutely despises the writers, and another person on another side can love it. Really people, just go outside, play with toys or take a break. All this arguing over one little thing can't be good for you.
     
  13. Sinnertwin

    Sinnertwin Banned

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    ^rxlthunder you can stop repeatedly posting that now.

    The spark extractor is a WMD. It's a bomb that kills everyone; so much was stated in its first appearance. Don't pretend it's "unrealistic" for it to kill everyone on board the Nemesis.
     
  14. soundwave142

    soundwave142 Decepticon over-seer

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    were people saying it didn't do that?
     
  15. rxlthunder

    rxlthunder Banned

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    Out of curiosity, did it show up like 5-6 times? Because I've been trying to post for a while now.
     
  16. Sinnertwin

    Sinnertwin Banned

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    Yeah, at least twice.
     
  17. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    I'm not giving a damn to realism, the point is that it was never stated it could go through metal walls [and it was still a highly stupid decision, given that they'd need to throw the thing up in the air].
     
  18. Sinnertwin

    Sinnertwin Banned

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    Why would it need to be stated? A bomb is a bomb, and one that tears out sparks can probably be assumed to do more than just "explode"; from the start I assumed it emitted a wave of some sort that pulled the sparks from their bodies.

    And oh, I'm not debating that the plan was utterly ******ed; it was. "AUTOBOTS, LET'S...LET'S JUST FUCKING RUN AT THE NEMESIS. ACTUALLY NO, JUST BUMBLEBEE. GO BEE! WE'LL STAND HERE AND SHOOT AT NOTHING"
     
  19. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

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    I never said the Extractor had to destroy the Nemesis. The name: SPARK Extractor, implies it destroys sparks, not ships. Now, if it were SHIP WRECKER, I'd go for it. It's like heating a metal ball with some bugs inside. The ball will survive just fine, it's the bugs that are gonna die.

    All it had to do was suck out the soul of every last fool onboard. It's a Class-A Superweapon, and clearly holds much esteem to its power. It's effect is implied to bypass the physical shielding of the ship and reach right inside to the juicy sparks within. The only problem is getting in range, and if it wasn't for that stasis beam, the autobots probably would have pulled it off.

    Besides, the power core of the ship, the true vital target, is inside beyond the range of the other two devices.
     
  20. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering.

    Ratchet could have ended the Decepticon threat if he set off the spark extractor after he space bridged inside the Nemesis, right?

    Or was there too little time?




    The humans perspective on things was interesting in this episode, since things seem more grandiose and majestic when you're tiny.