Episode 37 "Flying Mind" Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Stardust262, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Baka Mitai

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    Then you don't have java or flash or something installed.
     
  2. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    Same could be said about stating it's not an error. Talking about stuff that didn't happen or wasn't explained onscreen isn't really proof to say that's not an error.

    Because it didn't pick up the Spark Extractor and it didn't go to old coordinates.

    The files being decrypted would be how the ship knows they have already been visited. Revisiting old coordinates isn't a priority. Recovering items, yes, but the ship didn't do that, so I think it's fair to assume that old items weren't a part of its mission. Also, here's a big thing: If revisiting old coordinates was a part of its mission, don't you think it would have done that right away instead of decrypting a new set of coordinates, and THEN immediately moving? They make a point to show that it decrypts something new and starts moving towards said related decryption.

    Honestly I think what the dialogue meant to say was "decrypt Iacon Database that isn't already decrypted and recover said newly decrypted items," because otherwise it would make no sense with what happened onscreen.

    Orion had to make an educated guess as to what the coordinates even were, let alone specific objects. And Megatron had a little monologue wondering what "long lost treasures" he'll find. It's pretty safe to assume there aren't specific names.


    I'm aware they're one and the same; I'm just saying it's irrelevant because the previous files didn't have anything to do with what Trypticon was specifically doing during the episode.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

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    There's trying to rationalize an error logically, and there's jumping through fucking hoops. They goofed. That's all.
     
  4. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

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    The ship might not have recognised the Spark Extractor - but I consider that unlikely as I'm sure it would be mentioned some place in the Computer's files.

    It not picking the Spark extractor up does smack of a plot hole though.
    It smells more or Bob Skir wanting to get on to the next big shiny thing as quickly as possible.

    They could have got around it by having them argue with the computer over the spark extractor or shown fowler put it under his shirt.

    The only other thing I can think of is the Computer didn't want it on the ship in case Megatron tried to use it on him.
     
  5. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    Actually I do but I haven't installed any updates on it in a LONG time so it may not be working properly.

    That's different. Calling something an error that might not be is jumping to a conclusion without looking at all the evidence. Saying it's not an error is taking into account other possibilities.

    There is evidence on screen that could explain away any possible error. Outright saying it is an error means there's no way to explain it that would make any logical sense. As long as it can be explained in some logical way it's not an outright error.

    Think of it this way, Starscream's scar is an error because that thing keeps disappearing and reappearing. The first time it disappeared it wasn't really an error because we could assume he got it repaired at some point but sense it came back then it became an error. It wasn't an error until there was no logical explanation for it.

    Or another example. Optimus Prime's sword. The tip had been missing sense One Shall Fall and we never saw it get repaired but it was whole again in Nemesis Prime. Now we can assume that Ratchet has repaired his sword even though we never saw it happen or we can call it an error. But it's not actually an error unless he uses it and it's broken again for no apparent reason.

    Basically if it was actually an error we wouldn't be arguing about it. If it was actually an error there wouldn't be any room for doubt. Any doubt means no error.

    If that's true THAT would be an error.

    Just because the file was decrypted doesn't mean the location has been visited already. All the ship would know is that the file was decrypted not that the location had been visited. The ship decrypted 4 new files but has it visited any one of the 4 locations? No. It was heading to 1 while decrypting 3 others. The first 3 Orion Pax decrypted the Decepticons didn't even visit till AFTER Optimus Prime had gained his memories back. It seemed like they weren't going to make a move at all until they had every location uncovered and loosing Orion Pax made them act more quickly on the locations they did have. Of course the ship would not know any of this information so as part of it's mission it would have to make sure it recovered the first 3 objects before moving onto the 4 new ones.

    It's not fair to assume that old items weren't part of it's mission because there's no reason to think that. They're part of the same mission, the ship has no way of knowing that the old locations were visited already. There is no reason it wouldn't visit the locations UNLESS he took the Spark Extractor which he didn't.

    You think he didn't take the Spark Extractor because it wasn't part of his mission but it was part of his mission. He specifically stated Project Iacon, the Spark Extractor was from Project Iacon, hence it was his mission to take the Spark Extractor. I think he didn't take the Spark Extractor because he didn't know it was there which implies he visited old locations.

    Here's the thing, if visiting old coordinates wasn't part of his mission why was he decrypting Project Iacon files at all? Why wasn't he working an entirely different mission? It doesn't make sense for him to say that was his mission if the first thing he does is completely ignore a huge part of it.

    That's not what the dialog said and it doesn't make sense. It does make sense if you consider the possibility that he did in fact visit the old locations. Not only does it make sense but it also explains why it would have to fly over the Atlantic Ocean. The other way pretty much every single bit of dialog in this episode was completely wrong.

    The ship ignoring the Spark Extractor while claiming it was his mission to recover it, wrong. Fowler saying that the Nemesis crossed over the Atlantic Ocean and heading for North America when it crashed in Nevada, wrong. The whole episode would be one big error.

    I'm going to wait to see if future dialog makes it impossible to explain logically before I call it an error because there's not enough evidence to support it right now. It could be an error, I'll give you that, but it's not until you can say that there is no way this makes any sense. As long as it's at least possible to explain then it can't be an error. There are several possibilities right now and none of them are fact.

    Oh yeah, that's another way to put it. You saying it is an error is claiming a fact without proof. Me claiming it's not an error is just saying that there are other possibilities. I haven't claimed any of them as fact or disproved the error possibility either. I wasn't trying to disprove it, I just stated that it wasn't a fact. I'm open to the possibility that there is an error, I'm just not believing that there truly is one yet.

    Technically speaking that was when Orion Pax was doing the decrypting and Knock Out said the the ship was doing a better job. Maybe there was more in the files than just the locations but Orion Pax wasn't able to decode that part.

    Of course I have said before if the items weren't named that would give the ship reason to visit all 3 of the old locations.

    Basically the ship scans for specific things. It couldn't see humans because it wasn't scanning for carbon based life forms. It's mission was to decode the Project Iacon files and recover the artifacts hidden there. As part of it's mission it would have noticed 3 locations had been decoded already but would have no way of knowing they had been visited already.

    If it knew what the specific items were then the first thing it would do is scan for them and take the Spark Extractor. However it didn't take the Spark Extractor which means there are two other possibilities.

    1. It wasn't scanning for the items at the crash site because it wasn't expecting them to be there. Which means it would visit the first 3 locations decoded by Orion Pax. Then it would scan for the item that was suppose to be there and find nothing learning that it had already been taken.

    1A. It might scan to see if any of the first 3 items were on board and discover only 2 of them. At this point sense he still wouldn't know where the Spark Extractor was, going to a new location he did know he could find an object would take priority over tracking down a missing object.

    1B. It might decide to just move onto each location scanning for objects at each location taking priority over finding objects that were missing from where they're suppose to be.

    2. If he didn't know exactly what objects were hidden at each location then he would visit each location scanning for any Cybertronian tech that might be in the area rather than for specific objects. If he finds nothing then he would move onto the next location and do it again.

    In every possibility he would have to visit at least the first location if not all three because he would have no way of knowing there wasn't anything to find there. He'd only be able to move to the first new location once he was sure that the first 3 old locations had already been recovered already. The only reason he wouldn't revisit old locations is if he knew they had been visited already. Sense he was in stasis at the time there's no way for him to know that.

    What you just said is a contradiction. Because they're one the same it is relevant because the previous files have everything to do with what the Warship (I'm not calling him Trypticon till they name him that in the show.) was specifically doing during the episode.

    The only way it would be irrelevant would be if the warship had a completely different mission that had nothing at all to do with Project Iacon. Because it's mission has everything to do with Project Iacon that means his mission includes the original 3 locations that Orion Pax already decoded.

    It's completely relevant because it's factually what his mission included. There's no reason to think it wasn't because he flat out said that's what he was doing.

    Let me put it this way. The only possible reason that the Warship would ignore the first 3 locations is if they had been deleted from the Project Iacon Files. There's no reason to think that the Decepticons were deleting locations from the computer system once the item had been recovered. I mean what would be the point? If they have the item even if the Autobots stole the locations there would be nothing there for them to take so why delete the record from the computer when there's no reason to?

    Oh and that display, no wander I didn't notice it before. It's night time outside which is weird considering it's day time the entire rest of the episode when they're outside.

    The ship had all of the Autobots and the entire crew put in stasis. I don't think Megatron trying to use the Spark Extractor on him was an issue. Plus they would have to evacuate the ship in order to do it sense all of their sparks would be extracted along with the ship. That is what the Autobots were trying to do with it.

    Anyway I believe Megatron will get it back at some point because it looks like it was designed specifically for him. The Spark Extractor shares Megatron's color scheme and point bits. It even has that dark Energon purple color that Megatron some times has even though there is no dark Energon in the Spark Extractor. That design just kinda gives away that Megatron's going to use it for something at some point. Plus Beast Machines Megatron is the one who first invented the Spark Extractor in the first place, I know different continuity but still one is loosely based on the other so that tells me Megatron will use the weapon. I'd be surprised, no shocked if he didn't.
     
  6. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    But there isn't.


    Optimus Prime's sword is actually has a straight forward and obvious explanation. He came back to the base, Ratchet is there so he can fix him, everything's fine. "MAYBE the ship's guidance system got damaged from the power core and it went a different direction! Or MAYBE the Dark Energon made it go some weird direction!" isn't a straight forward explanation. Or we wouldn't be discussing it right now.


    I'll repeat what I said: If the old locations were a part of its mission, why didn't it start moving right away?


    Because that's what he was programmed to do. He didn't know why he was doing it. He just did. I assume that's why he hung up on Ratchet when asked "for what purpose?"


    It's not what the dialogue said, but it could have been what it meant. "My mission is to decrypt the Iacon Database and recover Decepticon technologies" could easily be spinned into "My mission is to decrypt the Iacon Database, and then go to the locations I decrypted to recover the technologies." Just like how "I'm going to mall and I'm going to eat a burger" can mean "I'm going to the mall and I'm going to eat a burger at the same mall I'm going to."

    I don't believe the warship did anything related to any of the previous three coordinates, so it's not relevant to what I'm talking about. I already stated a solid reason why the old coordinates weren't a part of its mission.

    Okay. Then I'll change my statement to "there's a pretty big possibility that it's an error" and be done with it.
     
  7. HoneyPrime

    HoneyPrime ♥♥ Smokescreen ♥♥

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    I support what Bountyan is saying. I also agree with him on why the ship hung up on Ratchet. It just knew it was supposed to find them but didn't know why. So it simply didn't answer Ratchets question.

    As soon as it decoded the first set of new coordinates is when it moved in it's own direction. It's mission was to find and recover new objects, it wasn't concerned about ones already recovered. It's mission was single minded and simple.
     
  8. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

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    Oh MY GOD STOP IT
     
  9. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Baka Mitai

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    But it's so much fun!
     
  10. doomboy536

    doomboy536 Universe Onslaught fanboy

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    Guys, you broke Chris. That's not cool.
     
  11. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    I lol'd harder than I should have
     
  12. aimop95

    aimop95 Aimoperative

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    Hey guess what! Looks like the Knock Out and Breakdown question got answered!
     
  13. soundwave142

    soundwave142 Decepticon over-seer

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    Lol you people silly......
     
  14. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    I had a whole big post written till I saw this. That's all I really wanted anyway so no point in dragging this out any further. ;) 
     
  15. Raptarrin

    Raptarrin Proud Decepticon

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    Did anyone else appreciate the "laser lattice" that the ship employed to round up Dreadwing and the others? It totally seemed like a nod to Resident Evil, but I was relieved when it didn't slice anyone into cube-sized pieces.
     
  16. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    I know what you're talking about. When I first saw that I was totally expecting them to be cut into little pieces instead of just being put into Stasis. I suppose they used the stasis beam because with that amount of power it could have killed off the entire cast if they actually gave it real weapons.

    Of course that is also part of why I think not all it's systems were functional because I'm sure it had more substantial weapons than a stasis beam. It may have intentionally only used stasis on it's fellow Decepticons but I think it would have killed the Autobots if it was able to. He did threaten any Cybertronian who tries to get in the way of his mission.
     
  17. Raptarrin

    Raptarrin Proud Decepticon

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    There are a LOT of intriguing questions raised - I do wonder when we'll be seeing him again. It was quite amusing to see Megatron beat like a schoolboy!
     
  18. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

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    I was just trying to think of some excuse why the ship didn't want the spark extractor or why it didn't recognise it, or indeed a full explanation of Bulkhead driving back to base after the crash in good time and I'm coming up blank.

    I think it's like tissue paper Insecticons and I'm sorry to say I can only put it down to the recent dip in quality of the last few episodes. And If i'm honest it does not reflect to favourably on Marty & Bob who have been writing some of those plot hole filled or rushed episodes.. I like the lady writer/s best.
     
  19. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

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    The Justin TV channel prime was on last week has been closed so I don't know if there is another channel ; for the next episode ?

    Justin.tv - Live Streaming Video
     
  20. AnithaPrime

    AnithaPrime TURDUKEN

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