The lack of realism. Or "Prime vs. This much better thing"

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by SPLIT LIP, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Baka Mitai

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    Technically speaking, his avatar is Dr. Who, in pony form. Unless I'm getting my ponies mixed up.
     
  2. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

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    You think THAT was a long post?? You ain't seen nothin'! Bah... kids, these days with their memes and their emoticons. Reading is dead.:peoples: 

    But I agree with you. Kids do deserve quality shows. However, let's be honest here... the scale is not the same (granted there are a lot of crap grown-up shows too). An adult should not expect the same level of engagement and gratification from a kid show as from something aimed directly at their age group and fan demographic... which in this case would be something like More than Meets the Eye. Transformers Prime is about average. Maybe even slightly better than average. The problem though is that a lot of us, being older fans, expect more. It would be nice... it's always a pleasant surprise to see that lightning has struck, and a kid show turns out to be incredibly good... but it's pretty rare.

    I think that's the real problem... is that they're trying to play to both audiences, and failing. They pepper the story with those bits that make adult and teen fans go "Whoa! This is DARK! Awesome!" while still sticking largely to really tedious kiddie-show writing tropes. And of course, let's not forget that darkness isn't automatically "adult". Kids respond to those dark things too... character death, scary twists, etc. However, is the writing sophisticated? Is is clever? That's what you need to appeal to an older demographic (ideally).

    The thing about kids... well, that's complicated. On the one hand, they can be critical. I know I was pretty critical of my cartoons and comics when I was a kid, but on the other hand, they can be incredibly undiscriminating in their tastes as well. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong... maybe it's not a question of age at all. Maybe it's just a question of bad taste... because that would explain all the absolutely awful, brainless garbage that's popular right now on "grown-up" TV. :) 

    I don't disagree with this assessment.

    zmog
     
  3. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Nice Free Enterprise Quote :D 
     
  4. jackgaughan

    jackgaughan Banned

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    So when is MTMTE coming out TPB? I wanna read it.
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Ironically posted after a lengthy tirade about said show.

    We have the right to discuss. It's what this forum exists for. You're obviously here for discussion, but complain about it? If we were complacent about every shortcoming there would be no improvement, and I don't want this show to go down the gutter because of stupid, easily fixable things.

    Well, we're into issue four, and it's an ongoing. So no idea.

    I don't think anyone here is saying the show, overall is bad. It's just been really bad lately.
     
  6. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Well and William Shatner was actually referring more to them worshiping him and praising him than hating on him :) 
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    So, I'm confused, is he saying he hates or likes the show?
     
  8. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    I think he is saying that he wants James Roberts writing a cartoon.

    Pretty sure he is saying that he wants James Roberts writing a cartoon.
     
  9. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    No he likes the show. I mean the Shatner line. He tells the characters of the movie to get a life, because they are going ape shit about meeting him.

    He used the quote in reference to folks disliking the show. But Shatner is actually talking to people who worship him.
     
  10. NathanS

    NathanS Well-Known Member

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    I suppose the thing that has me just frustrated enough to post on it is it teeters on the edge. It brushes with moving into good solid stuff, but then re-lapses. Like the much noted Arcee finally over her partners moving on at then end of session one, only oops! Writers realized that that means they have to come up with some more character for her and that'd be work so nope right back to square one!

    All them dang fangeld pony-ma-call-its look the same to my old man eyes sonny.
     
  11. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    I don't think you are saying the show is bad overall, but I do think that some people are saying it's bad overall, to be sure.
     
  12. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    OH.

    I gotcha.
     
  13. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    LOL!

    Look, here is the thing:

    My view of the show in all it's non-glamored glory.

    I love the show. Look forward to it every weekend. Glad that it's been airing every week for months now. Are there flaws? Hell yeah. I'll tell you about mine.

    I know the season will never surprise me with new locations. Because these guys modeled deserts and a small quaint town to compensate for episode deadlines, and because building big cities means populating big cities. I'm even willing to bet that the upcoming
    new york
    episode is shot mainly underground, with occasional establishing shots to make us say "Wow, they are in
    New York!
    "

    The trees in the show are "Happy to see the camera". This refers to a phrase my cousin and I started during the N64 days to indicate trees and structures that were 2D, but appeared to be in 3D because they rotated to face the cameras, regardless of the direction the camera was pointing. Real turn off on a CG TV show.

    I want more drama between the Autobots. Like I said before. I loved hearing Ratchet tell Prime off, and Prime's reaction to it.

    We were supposed to see more SPACE, and we're halfway through the season with only one scene in space.

    I hate references to characters like Seaspray that are hidden behind the limitations of the animation department. And I hate cloned characters who represent other characters: Dreadwing

    Clone Wars introduces characters and locations every episode. There's always something new. I always know Prime is going to be in the desert, with the same Transformers.

    Miko (albeit better in this season).

    The Nemesis is the size of a small city, but nowhere has Fowler reported sitings of a giant UFO (even in the desert someone would have spotted it).

    Bumblebee sounds like a broken Atari game. Fix his voice already. It's getting old.
    ............


    OK, so WHY do I love this show.... it all comes down to one reason:

    [​IMG]

    We are a far cry from these days.

    That's not a pardon for Transformers Prime. We still have Miko. And it's not a pardon, because we don't have to tolerate bad writing and animation because Carlos came before, even though I personally don't think this show has bad writing or bad animation.

    But things are getting better. Animated was fucking awesome, but prior to that, I hit some hard times with Transformers. I don't collect like some of you guys, unless I love the show I'm collecting for. Armada had a great ending, but I was getting sick of ported anime. Sick to death. I almost dropped Transformers as a whole. Finally Animated fixed all that, but IMO it was still a little goofy. That said (I DO LOVE IT).

    Enter Prime. Not quite where I want it to be, but compared to this [​IMG], I can't help to be happy to have my fiance actually looking forward to watching my shit with me. She didn't care about Animated. But she cares about this. She loves Ratchet, and would leave me for Bulkhead.

    It's not perfect for the above reasons. But I do love the shit out of it. There are no real excuses for some of my above issues (except understandable limitations, which I deal with at work every day). But knowing what came before this, I am happy where I am, and I hope that time will address all the issues we have.

    Another quick reminder: [​IMG]

    That's also why I say time and time again, that us disagreeing doesn't indicate that I consider you a hater, or dismiss your points. You make points that I completely get, and are a far cry from people like Smasher indicated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  14. Sumner Sturgeon

    Sumner Sturgeon It's not easy being the best~

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    First off, that was a joke-- admittedly a rather insensitive one, so I apologise for that.

    Secondly, I was not saying that mindless fanboys who just love everything is what I wanted; quite the contrary, I was backhandedly criticising Pony fans for acting that way. What I was saying is that, while critical engagement is fine on its own, people taking it personally and throwing around angry, hyperbolic rants is not. I would never want to be part of any kind of fandom that only ever expressed a single viewpoint; that, I imagine, is what hell must be like.

    I was under the impression that no one actually took that guy seriously.

    And, to go back to your earlier reply to me, I was intentionally exaggerating about the "consensus" thing; I probably should have explained more. I was commenting on how everyone seems far more interested in stating what they don't like about the show than what they do, even the people who claim to like it. TV Tropes is right, people really do love accentuating the negative.
     
  15. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    And how about comparing it to 'Rescue Bots' and finding Prime lacking?

    As I've mentioned, we've only gotten 8 episodes of Rescue Bots, and what has it given us?

    • Backstory. Not just any backstory, but enough to explain who and what the Rescue Bots were before the series began, the city that they're in and why they're there.
    • Characters. Several strong characters (including all the Bots). Rescue Bots, their partners, and people in the town have all had character development.
    • Character Growth Curve. At first, none of the Rescue Bots and their partners got along. Perhaps too quickly, they managed to work on their issues and now they're still not real partners, but they are a lot closer then just 7 episodes prior.
    • A kid character who makes sense, is reasonable, and is useful. The kid doesn't try to be the hero, he helps the heroes and is one in his own way for doing that.
    • Occasional plot twists. Just when you think the series is settling down, there's something new. One person suspects the Rescue Bots are alive, there's a weird corporate logo on an object, etc.
    • Fun. Seriously, a lot of the episodes are fun. Not trying to be, are. The stories aren't too serious, but there are tons of references, from Hitchcock films, a rundown of alien movies, the Back to the Future car, etc.

    It's one thing to find 'Prime' lacking against 'Spartacus', The Borgias', or 'Game of Thrones', but to be the show that can't even develop the characters as well as the aimed at younger audiences 'Rescue Bots' after four and a half times as many episodes is saying something.
     
  16. Sumner Sturgeon

    Sumner Sturgeon It's not easy being the best~

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    Just to show the inherent subjectivity at work here...I disagree with pretty much all of that except the characterisation bit, and in my opinion, I can find it in Prime as well. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Rescue Bots, but I generally think it to be guilty of the same kind of meandering, directionlessness that so many folks here accuse Prime of.

    Am I going to go around writing essay-length posts about how that's the "right" point of view, though? No-- it's what I think, and I don't think it has to have any greater significance than that.
     
  17. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    This. Yes the show's not perfect but for crying out loud we get it already.

    Actually in Armada thye actually fixed that problem from Crossfire by making Arcee use ehr head this time around. In that episode Optimus stated that they must stop Airachnid and Arcee saw it as an order. Even if it wasn't someone had to go after Airachnid because if all three of them stayed to fight the Insecticons Airachnid would've been far gone by now. After the chase Arcee used her head about how to face Airachnid and came off the better for it. Arcee's actually growing as a character this time around which means the writers fixed it up.

    Excallent points indeed! :thumb  We are certainly a FAR cry from Armada so can't we stop treating Prime as such?

    I noitced that too.

    Again good point

    Many of us are treating Prime as the next Armada when it's really more like Animated before it really kicked off. Prim emay be taking longer but I'm sure that in the end of Season 2 and the rest of Season 3 that's when Prime will really kick off. I may be wrong but it never hurts to be optimusitc.
     
  18. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Hey guys I had a thought how about one of you guys at BotCon ask this at the Q&A.

    I want to see what the producers would respond to the criticisms.
     
  19. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Very good question. If no one else asks it, I will :) 
     
  20. Dinodigger97

    Dinodigger97 germinates within you.

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    You are so correct.