If Transformers: Prime wasn't CGI'ed ...

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by JohnRedcorn, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. JohnRedcorn

    JohnRedcorn Well-Known Member

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    ... it would probably look good as Tranformers RiD. I have to admit, aside from the whole "let's work as a team"-collectivism daily lessons, the show looks and feels good. And chances are if the show was animated like RiD we would have had richer stories with more characters throughout the series.
     
  2. nobleboivin

    nobleboivin Well-Known Member

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    agreed
     
  3. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    This isn't a sort of anti-CGI thread, is it?

    As much as I love hand-drawn works, I think that PRIME's artwork looked fabulous.
     
  4. Purple Heart

    Purple Heart Some other time..

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    RID is CGI, you know that right?
     
  5. guard convoy

    guard convoy The Big Daddy

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    while prime had some top-notch CGI, i think being CGI really hurt what they were able to do with prime. everything looked empty and you just can't do as much with CGI as you can with 2d animation

    prime might have been a poorly written show, but at least it had good animation when it came to CGI
     
  6. Sumner Sturgeon

    Sumner Sturgeon It's not easy being the best~

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    Agreed.

    And the point this thread seems to be making, along with the reactions it's gathered so far, feels painfully familiar.
     
  7. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Veteran

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    RID is CGI- just a cheaper method thats made to look 2D (with 2D backgrounds).

    Even in the 2D animation programs such as ToonBoomAnimate (which is quickly replacing Flash), you now have your layers in a 3D space. It's becoming pretty rare to see true 100% 2D.

    But anyways- they could've made it work. Beast Wars made it work. More characters would have been nice, but the problems with the story/how it was written is all on the writers/whoever decided to keep changing the story.
     
  8. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Yeah if the CGI wasn't as top notch as it was, we would have had more characters and less limitations of what they could put in there.

    Prime's CGI is fantastic, one of the best animated CGI's cartoons they've made but honestly I would have prefered TMNT level style CGI if it meant more could be done.
     
  9. guard convoy

    guard convoy The Big Daddy

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  10. Shin Densetsu

    Shin Densetsu I WILL DESTROY YOU Content Contributor Veteran

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    I don't think the way Prime was animated would've changed/affected how it was written. To me, RID comes off as less serious, more fun and lighthearted. Whereas Prime came off as trying too hard to be serious, had nice nods to transformer lore but much wasted potential.

    Even if Prime were animated the same as RID the overall tone and story wouldn't have changed IMO.
     
  11. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    Fixed.

    2D animation is still true 100% 2D animation weather it's CGI or hand drawn. The difference between 2D and 3D is weather or not the image has depth not weather or not it was made on a computer.

    Although technically no image has depth because the picture is totally flat. True 3D is when the image appears to be coming out of the screen rather than being restricted by it. This requires the use of 3D Glasses.

    Anyway within the context of a cartoon, some animation styles give the illusion of depth without actually having it. That's what we refer to as 3D animation. If you were to take a 3D image of a ball and turn it around it would still look like a ball from any angle you look at it. Just like actually having a ball in your hand. If you were look at a 2D image of a ball however turning it to it's side would be like turning a quarter to it's side. You'd see an edge rather than a smooth round surface all the way around.

    All of the problems from mixing traditional hand drawn animation with computer animation are caused by the fact that CGI is typically 3D while hand drawn never is. It's a lot easier to blend the two if the CGI is still 2D. Then you can't tell what's CGI and what's hand drawn.

    That being said, since nothing is really hand drawn anymore, CGI has kind of changed to mean the same thing as 3D. You could actually get really technical and say that everything is CGI, even live action because if you're watching it on a computer your computer is generating those images. CGI stands for Computer Generated Image so any image on your computer could be classified as CGI. Though that is kind of a smart ass joke taking the definition a bit more literal than it's actually intended.
     
  12. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Veteran

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    ^ I wasn't talking about whether it was on a computer. If somebody wants to get super technical, they're free to do so, but for most "CGI" will be understood as 3D.

    For animation:
    2D = 2 planes/axis
    3D = 3 planes/axis

    It doesn't matter if your layer/object is flat. If you're moving it in x,y,z then you're using a 3D program. And it really is becoming rare to see truly 2D animation programs.
    A 2D piece that has the illusion of depth, but no 3rd plane, is not 3D. That's just perspective and a talented 2D artist.

    P.S- there's tons of hand drawn animation still around, especially in commercials. :) 
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
  13. JohnRedcorn

    JohnRedcorn Well-Known Member

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    The point that I am trying to make is that if the CGI wasn't sophisticated (i.e. expensive), they could have more space in budget to have more characters and more elaborate stories.
     
  14. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    They probably could have done so much.

    They could have done combiners, they could have done the Dinobots, they could have had that train former like they wanted to do.
     
  15. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Veteran

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    maybe we could've actually gotten to see Seaspray...
    and more than Makeshift's silhouette.
    Tailgate wouldn't have been a blue Cliffjumper...
    Magnus, even though he looked awesome, might not have been Optimus Prime ala shoulder pads.
     
  16. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    I'm still surprised with the design they went with Magnus especially since the PRID toy was a all new design and they gave Optimus a new design instead.
     
  17. Morbo

    Morbo Knowledge Brings Fear

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    The higher-end CGI large polygon model animation was neat, and could look great for the Transformers, but it didn't fit the show's writing.

    Beast Wars worked because the writers understood the restrictions of limited character numbers and put the show in a box from day one. Prime wanted an epic feel and was fighting against the restriction the whole time. There was hardly an episode where it didn't feel weird having only ten or so named Cybertronians on the planet at a time when there's supposedly hundreds or thousands left, especially with the two leaders present, actively calling others in.

    We'll see how RID handles it. The quality of the show always comes down, first, last, and foremost, to the writing. Prime's tended to be so-so.
     
  18. Maximo Prime

    Maximo Prime Bassist of Ill Repute

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    Just an observation – if people who judged these pieces of fiction on their own merits rather than what they could have been, they would be a lot happier. All of the what if's compare an existing piece of fiction to something that doesn't exist. that is inherently unfair, and ultimately leads to dissatisfaction for the fan. I prefer to be more happy than not while enjoying this hobby.

    All this talk of wasted potential – it's not as if what you really wanted exists and they just didn't choose it, it was never created in the first place. If prime had RID animation, that doesn't guarantee the writing would improve. You can't argue that it would. Look how many characters Energon had with similar albeit crappier animation. Need I go on?
     
  19. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Taking a break

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    That's only applicable when the show substitutes what it doesn't do with something else. Prime, due to it's limited budget, and the limited creativity of the writers, felt like it took place in an empty world, filled with a handful of people talking about things we want to see, but never do. BW and BM were smart and based their stories around the fact their worlds were empty. In Prime, they just were, with nothing to substitute what's missing.

    Edit: It's true that having more stuff in no way means that any of it would be well written, but at least things would seem less dull, and repetitive. I've never thought Clone Wars had particularly great writing, at least not consistently, but it would often make up for it in having giant armies fighting each other across countless worlds. While that was done in CGI, with a ridiculously big budget, it still would have been entertaining in any form of animation, as long as it was of good quality, which ever type is used.
     
  20. Maximo Prime

    Maximo Prime Bassist of Ill Repute

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    I'll be honest, i gave zero f*cks about the empty space. I don't even pay attention to background characters when they ARE there. I don't believe the writers were lazy. every interview I've ever seen with them showed how much they were into what they were doing. You don't have to believe me, or agree, or whatever... Isn't it enough to say you didn't like the show, without resorting to "limited creativity of the writers"... Dude you don't just fall into that kind of job. I very much doubt the writers had no chops or concerns.

    Maybe the show didn't go the way YOU wanted, and hey that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. I don't care that you don't like the show, i'm not white-knighting here. I enjoyed the show just fine. Were there elements that were picked up and then dropped unceremoniously? Sure. They weren't important in the story if the writers felt that way.

    Take the rivalry between Breakdown and Bulkhead. I really just did not give a shit why they were rivals. Maybe they were buds, some shit went down, now they're not. It wasn't important to the story. So when Breakdown was killed without resolving that story, like things that happen in real life without closure, it felt natural to me, and I enjoyed the way things played out.


    Good lord. I know he doesn't see this, but I just had to point this out.