As others have eluded to, it's not so much about the quantity as it is about the language used within the auction in HighPrime's case. 11 pieces of an item is still an insanely low number, don't get it twisted. Once they're gone (however many there are) they're gone. As Paul said, it's just a question of how many survived. As frustrating as it is, it's not up to the seller to declare his quantities, even though in instances such as this with a very high profile piece it would have been the right thing to do. However, when a seller goes out of their way to indicate that this is a unique opportunity, it comes across as a little underhanded. Speaking of researching an item, the only thing HP could have done was to flat out ask if the seller had another one. I don't know if he did, but the seller initially wasn't forthcoming on this topic anyway so that point is probably redundant. Plus none of us were expecting an item of this status to be shrouded in caveat. When bidders are under the assumption (yes, assumption) that any item in an auction is unique or rarely frequents public opportunity, they will inherently bid more than they normally would. Apply that stance to 2 or 3 interested parties and you have a bidding war. I refer you all to Hitch's candy bar analogy. Here's another example: I purchased the first Aliens V Predators G2 GoBot Mock up that StarWarsproto listed. I had no idea that he had several more (not duplicates) so "assumed" that there was only one (I did not ask before bidding). I have somewhat of a GoBot mock up run so was inclined to pay a little extra. Had I known that there were others I wouldn't have bid as much or at all, and instead waited for others to be listed at a lower buy it now price which would have been based on the outcome of the initial auction's sale price had I not been involved. Collectors of these types of things tend to purchase one as an example for their collection, or the full set/full inventory if the price is right. Purchasing his full set/inventory at the price I paid would have been to expensive, and so subsequently made the decision to just buy the one example. I can't speak for anything he may have sold off eBay, but I'm pretty sure the ones he listed as a BIN subsequent to the original auction are still there. They won't sell at that price point for several years, if ever. I could be wrong of course, but that's my educated guess based on the small size of this collecting niche. My point, albeit long-winded, is that if buyers have the luxury of being informed with all of the facts they can make an informed decision. That and that alone sets market value. Not a sudden notion of something's worth based the outcome of a solitary transaction, now threatened by the possibility of chicanery. I must state though, that I had a flawless transaction with StarWarsproto for that eBay purchase. I must also state that these are my opinions based on many years of collecting this type of thing, and unless prefaced as such; can not speak to conjecture. One thing I will say though, StarWarsproto (and please take this with a pinch of salt, sarcasm is a 3d currency in a 2d internet world) - when the G2 Menasor first appeared my Facebook chat lit up like a Christmas tree. Karl Hartman, Hitch, Cobra Zartan, Tony Preto, Alex Bickmore to name a few were all excited to share and discuss this. I was on vacation at the time, and upon seeing these numerous auction links all for the same item I instantly emailed you and asked which hardcopies you have. Emails went back and forth with answers like "maybe" or "some, not many", each time eluding a direct answer to my question. Now one should never put down to malice, what can be attributed to lack of knowledge. Maybe you hadn't gone through the boxes, but you had some indication or else you would have simply said so. As requested, even describing what they look like, or perhaps a grainy group shot taken with a Nokia 3210 would have sufficed. Anything. Nothing. It. Was. Like. Getting. Blood. From. A. Stoooooooone. You and that instance aside, why is it always like this? Seller's reluctant to show their hand for fear of being low-balled because they don't know their product or their market perhaps? Or is it simply a case of hedging bets in favour of maximising profit? Either way it's long, as we say in the UK. You can't dangle the carrot and display chagrin when everyone bites. Ras
Whatever the truth is, it sucks. A fellow fan overpaid, a dealer with rare items is getting maligned (possibly for good reason) and everyone's angry and everyone's at each other's throats. And the biggest problem, the instigator behind all of this is Pete. I love how he goes after the seller, and makes claims with "sources" and things of that nature, (but hasn't provided them) but he's no better than the claims he makes against starwarsprotos. His OTFCC/BotCon has caused people to lose not only money, but time, patience and security. All of which are irreplaceable. Time? Once it's gone, it's gone. Patience? Falls in with time. Security? Once you violate someone's trust, scare them, and so on, it damages them. The credit card fraud? Time, security and patience, not to mention money. I find it odd how some of the payments were addressed to Pete's house. (You could Google Map it.) I don't know if this part has changed, but it was that way at one point. The Classics Seekers? That was just a dick move. Fortunately, Hasbro made it possible for EVERYONE to get the figures they wanted. Sadly, it was after Pete and his crew fleeced the collectors. (Hey, Pete used the word fleeced when talking about starwarsprotos, so it's fair to use it when talking about Pete.) The quality of the BotCon figures has been hit or miss in the past, with part swaps necessary, trades between collectors, meetups here and there, and all for a $10-20.00 repurposed mold being sold for anywhere from $50-100 plus. So, a G2 Menasor was sold without a faceplate, it sucks, but it's not unheard of and the item is rare. BotCon's stuff is mass produced, compared to the G2 Menasor, and at the prices asked, there is no legitimate reason for missing accessories, misassembled figures, damaged packaging and ridiculously slow ass shipping. Speaking of shipping, Starwarsprotos FLEW and HAND DELIVERED this item, while BotCon makes you chase the white rabbit into Wonderland just to get a tracking number most times. Look, my point is this: Maybe the complaints against Starwarsprotos are legit, I don't know, but I do know that Pete has ZERO right to be pointing fingers at anyone, especially when so many are pointing back at him and his clan. And that's the honest truth, and you all know it.
Probably not the right thread for this...especially now that Pete has his OWN thread...and Pete will be one of the first to say that he and I don't see eye to eye an awful lot...but in THIS case I think Pete was right. Highprime went into that auction like many of us (Yes, I was an active bidder) thinking that, as the auction stated this was a "once in a lifetime" shot....it wasn't...did the seller hand deliver the item? Yes, which makes perfect sense for such a big ticket auction, but then SHOWED Highprime that he had more, and posted video of him having more. That really flies in the face of the sellers own description. Highprime, by his own post is genuinely pissed and who can blame him? No matter Pete's involvement in bringing much of this to light it's the buyer's opinion on it that matters most IMHO and reflects how *I* feel about the seller. Pete certainly has his flaws, but he has had enough experience in the fandom when these things pop up to question it...and it seems in this case he was right, so calling it out actually helps the fandom as a whole.
Definitely not the thread for this. As a matter of fact, I don't believe any thread is appropriate. If you have a personal issue with a member, take it up with them personally. As far as this thread is concern, it was because of Pete and his knowledge of these things and dealings with other collectors that brought this to light. He does know the things he states. None of it is 'He Tell Me'. If that's difficult to accept I'm sorry but it's the truth. I bet HP is more than happy that this thread took the direction that it did.
No, this is the perfect thread for this because it's relevant to the conversation and it's happening right now and has been happening, right here. Plus, that thread is for questions, there are really no questions being levied at Pete or BotCon, just addressing his penchant for doing the same thing he accuses others of doing. Fair to say, no? Besides, this thread and Pete's will end up getting cleaned out or shut down, so might as well say it while you can. Calling out bullshit is the right thing to do, sure, but Pete doesn't have that right. Sorry, but no. Now, some of your points here are absolutely valid. Seeing how it played out, now, yeah, Highprime has every right to be pissed. HP does, Pete? No. I can't blame HP for being angry. It was a shit thing to do. Because he has flaws of the same nature, should he really be throwing stones? Of any kind, at all? I don't think so. I fail to see how he's helped the fandom by doing this. I don't see it at all. If anything, it reeks of a man who was burnt by an auction getting his revenge by dragging the seller through the mud, when Highprime could've done that and legitimately so. HP has that right, Pete doesn't. Not at all what I said. Don't twist my words like you twist your policies. And why would you need to buy a set? I wouldn't be surprised if you were sitting on one or even more goodies that we'll never know about. (Not saying you are, or do. So don't twist that, either.) It's definitely the thread for this and if it was anyone but me who said it, you'd rally right behind them. Save it. I don't have a personal issue with Pete other than he has no right to say anything with the whole pot calling the kettle black issue. I'd have a personal issue with him if I were a customer of his, I'm not. Because the fandom has complained so much about BotCon's tactics and policies (all of which were legitimate complaints, I might add). He might know some things about what goes on behind the scenes, that's fine, and he can spill the beans on stuff like that, but if he's going to drag someone's name through the mud, he might as well be prepared to have the same happen to him. Again, I say, if HP had brought all of this to light, that would be one thing and AWESOME, but Pete? Nah.
the other thing that kind of sucks, is he had gone and had some of these graded at AFA. He has done the laser cycles, so theres a 2nd pair of those and the ATB Megs and SS. Thing is they have been graded at 80. 80 is not that great and now since it has been graded feels it is worth much much more now which sure prob none of this has ever been graded but an 80? i dont know.
So in conclusion (IMO) 1 - The buyer of the G2 Menasor overpaid 2 - The seller of the G2 Menasor wasn't forthcoming with information regarding the number of pieces discovered 3 - Pete's mouth is not connected to his brain (Sorry Pete, I've known you 15+ years & it's the truth) Close the thread, let the parties work it out privately
I just started reading this thread for the first time and couldn't be bothered going through 108 pages,can someone give me a summary of what transpired?
Holy crap. I caught up on all the drama going on. Just my two cents... Pete's a stand up guy who takes all the shit we throw at him and never backs down. Those who complain about the Club are always more vocal than the satisfied customers. With that said, Pete is also a FAN, like the rest of us. For those saying he is instigating or trolling, needs to get their heads checked. He asked the same question half the other posters have asked. Why is it trolling if he is just as curious as any one of us? The anger some of us have about the Club should not cloud the concerns of this topic, which has nothing to do with the TFCC at all. Lay off the guy and focus the anger elsewhere. As for the auction - If there was shill bidding going on, that's a big offense right there. Then again, why'd HP bid $27K in the first place? Because he thought this was a "once in a lifetime" chance as the seller stated. Are there more in existence than originally stated? Quite possibly, which makes the seller look a bit bad right now. This is going to be a war. $27K is a crapton of money. Someone is going to come out of this embarrassed, reputations tarnished... Truth is, if these are as rare as the seller states they are, just take the figures back, give HighPrime his money, and sell them to the next guy willing to shell out $20K. Like when WWE says The Rock vs. John Cena is a "Once in a Lifetime" and then happens two years in a row...
In the world of luxury items, not my words, the auction verbiage is extremely important to the buyer and often the determining factor of value. Be it cars, art, fine jewelry, etc. In this case, this high end item was no exception. Only the buyer and seller know exactly what transpired but honestly, none of it matters. What does matter is the item listed was alluded to as being one of one. The fact that the buyer should have done their homework is irrelevant. In the high end auction world you live and die by your reputation as an honest seller. Any information hightening the rarity or quality of an item can drive up the final selling price exponentially. And if that information is flawed in any way, you can be sure the buyer will not be happy.
If rarity is widely known and accepted in the fandom as law then the buyer should have known so. Like G1 unicron. However for an obscure item such as this without any previous knowledge of it even existing. The seller had an obligation to the customer who was under the impression they were getting a one of a kind item, of said items rarity. its like if i said that i have a one of a kind transformer you can't buy in stores due to having bought the entire production run, the rights, and the molds. if i then chose to release one say every five years, from now until the end of time, you'd be pissed off. hype and fandom created the insane price tag. But if rarity is the reason the customer bought it and the seller has control over the rarity, the buyer has the right to want a refund. whether the seller must oblige him is a test of moral character. If i were hasbro right now i would pump out an entire run of menasor in g2 colors just to drive the price and rarity of this item down out of spite. Ebay pricing for transformers are getting out of hand. But it's all about what someone is willing to pay. There are a number of items in my own collection that if i chose to sell them would net me a very substantial amount of money. Nowhere near the amount this sucker paid. For that amount of money he should have got all of them in existence and then completely destroyed all but one set. To ensure that his investment in this grail was not unfounded. But the seller didn't even wait a year until throwing up another set for a quick cash grab. The buyer may be guilty of being naive but the seller is guilty of being greedy. Whoever you think is guilty speaks more about you as a person, than them. I believe the seller is to blame on this one. He lied about the condition of the item. (being the only one in known existence) A fact he knew to be false. He deserves to have his giant payday revoked.
What I hate about this whole situation is that this isn't a person who's held on to these toys for twenty years and is now selling them. It's someone who bought a whole collection and is now doing everything he can to make a fortune from it. AFA, shill bidding, deceitful descriptions, not honouring highest bidders, etc. Rather than accepting that he got lucky and allowing things to play out honestly and fairly, he's turned it into a circus - an evil one, like The Cosmic Carnival.
Just checked back in on this and pity to see the way things turned out. Best of luck to everybody involved in working this out.
