TFCC Exclusive "news" about universe seacons

Well if you read I said I wasn't counting import costs. So if you live in a country that Hasbro neglects then I'm sorry. The problem there is that TF's simply don't sell well enough there, so dealing with that does suck.

However, I could have picked up probably a dozen of most Alts and sent them via trade or sale to anyone in the world at cost plus shipping. Funny, few ever asked and I've helped out plenty of people.

These forums should be a good way of making friends and contacts to help make getting some of these harder to get figures a lot easier and much more cost efficient to get. In other words, the options are there for you to explore. If you don't, then I can't help you there.

I hooked up with a collector in Japan who got me some nice figures at half (or more than half off) the retail price that most people were paying. That's the beauty of the internet! He got me a blue Ramble that was going alone on ebay for over $50-$60 at the time for $15 and the GF Prime/Wing Saber set for $90 shipped when most would have paid twice that shipped.

It's not a perfect market, things will get expensive even without exclusives. All the more reason why we don't need them.



Now a lot is said about previous years exclusives and how they didn't sell as well. Well one has to ask, did they not sell well purely because of lack of interest or was it the more due to the cost?

I'd have to say it's more due to the cost mainly, but both played a part. The thing is, more people may have been willing to purchase these exclusives if wasn't for such a high price. When they're made up or created as an expanded universe set (or individual) then I just don't think people put that big of a priority on owning them the same way they would figs like this years seekers who have a huge presence in the fandom already. So fewer will want to pay the cost. However I'm sure many would still not mind having them if the price were right.

If they produced twice as many at (or just over) half the cost then would that not be just as good? You can't tell me there wouldn't be a helluva lot more people willing to pony up if that were the case. And if the figures ARE like the Seacons or the Seeker set then THEY WILL SELL!

I'm not talking full scale retail sized production runs mind you, but simply getting getting a better handle on the collectors interests, or using other ideas to better help to determine how many they can sell and what price would be appropriate to charge in order to accomplish it's sales goals.

We rarely know what's coming until we see prototypes. Don't you think it harder to guage interest that way? The fandom as chaotic as it may be can still be the most useful tool to have that many times gets overlooked. Especially when we're talking about high priced figures geared specifically for said fandom. In that case, who better to have input?

The only way anyone would be taking any risks, is with unproven characters and/or poor mold choices. Those would be a tough sell no matter what. There is still a pressure to choose the right figures and color schemes that will be more pleasing to the majority of the fans, which I'll never believe is as hard as some people make it out to be.

If the club and con are not about making profit (as was said to be before by people) then the only real thing they should be concerned about is not losing money. I'm sure they could do better making good figures at lower prices than they could with great figures at insane prices.


You can't convince me that there is no way of knowing how well certain figures will sell if they're using well established characters and/or figures. It's not really hard to find out which figs would be considered "winners" with fans.

The made up or expanded universe characters can be tricky, there's no denying that. Which makes the uber-high pricetag all that much more of a risky proposition.





Last thing.

Call me crazy here, but this one theory of business which I happen to think is rather solid.

First realize that there is NO WAY to make everyone happy and accept that. Done.

Second, seeing you can't please everyone then the least thing you can do is try your best to not piss off as many people as you can so long as it's reasonable.

They still need to work on #2.

Is it really that bad to simply think they can do better and voice that opinion?

The club and convention are pretty small in comparison to it's existing fandom. I've seen little indication either that they seek to do any more than maintain the status quo.

If I were an exec at Hasbro working in the Transformers division then I might look to find someone with a better ability to be flexible and adaptive when it comes to dealing with running the fan club and conventions. I understand they tried to and it failed once. But I hope when the current contract is up that Hasbro will look for people with more vision and thats a bit more aggressive when it comes trying to get more fans on board to the club and conventions.

I think as it stands now, they're losing more opportunity than they realize.

Who said they're not trying to make a profit? We were flat out told that they were a business, and if they want to stay in business, they need to make a profit. It's not charity work...

I think, for the most part, the club is doing great. They're getting better. As Transformers fans, we are a VERY TOUGH crowd to please. Sure, they stalled a bit on the first Botcon set. Deathsaurus is the only one I own, but people seemed to like Ironhide and Ratchet, too. The next year, they made a much more desirable set using pre-Beast Wars as a template. It did much better, but, again, there was the problem of not enough "souvenirs". I would love to own a Megatron/Waspinator set at a reasonable price, but hey, it's not the end of the world. This past year, they picked up on how much people loved Classics, and since Hasbro wasn't going to make them, they gave us the rest of the Seekers. They also upped the number of "souvenirs" and it was the first time everything was sold out. In my mind, that means they're doing something right. They made a mistake with Astrotrain and Airazor (by making too many compared to the demand), but surely the Seacons are a sign that they're looking in the right direction.

People make mistakes. If we don't make mistakes, we'll never learn, now will we? With Botcon 2007 as the most recent example, tell me how they're failing? By not making enough? The price is obviously right, since they sold out. The only downside I can think of is "How do we top THIS for Botcon 2008's set?"

The only things I think the club can improve are finding a way to make sure we have at least one or two club exclusive figures a year (which can be done by having them made at the same time as the Botcon set) and find a way to give cheaper shipping rates for the store and preorder sheet. Sorry, but give people a choice of shipping speed...

I will be disappointed though, if the final free combiner doesn't have a remolded combiner head. The individual heads don't matter to me, but the big robot does.



Chris

The problem is Deathblade is that you've always failed to get the point. You're so quick to jump to your own conclusions. I don't blame you, it's an internet thing I think. It's hard to discuss anything and really get the points in such a clumsy means of communication.

I've talked about figures I DO OWN but I also realize and sympathize with all those who were less fortunate. At some point, on some level chances are we'll all be one of those less fortunate when it comes to figures, but it's harder to take when you're lower down on the ladder.

If certain things were made more easily accessible to a wider range of people then yes I would benefit and yes I would like that. Wouldn't you?

Just tell me WHY it's so bad to think things could be better.

What made constructive criticism taboo?

One thing is for sure, if nobody ever takes the time to ask for something better then nothing ever will get any better.

Over the years I've spent on the boards I'd have to say that I really do believe the talk has led to a lot of good things for us that we may never have got. Perhaps more than we realize.

I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or get anyone all offended so please don't be.

If you don't agree with all or anything I say, that's cool but please don't say it's all about me because if you do believe that then you have no idea who I am at all and have no right to make that judgment.

In the end, this argument all comes down options and the willingness or unwillingness to explore them at all.

I've argued in the past about it being a business and those who always argued against me told me time and time again it wasn't about making profit.

There are such things as non for profit businesses. That doesn't mean the people who work for them don't get paid. It simply means that it's supposedly not being run as a means of making anyone rich.


Just because figures didn't sell out before didn't mean there wasn't any interest in them. Let's get this straight...there was no interest in them AT THAT PRICE.

Who is to say that they couldn't have sold twice as many than they did if the price weren't better?

It comes down to knowing the market they're catering to. So when they do no-brainers like the seekers that nobody can argue wouldn't have sold well then say they had to be careful because of past years, that's just bull. Even though they did increase production a little it was far too little too late. Better planning and more vision is what they need.

All along the position seems to be that the prices of exclusives is determined by how many are produced and how much they need in financial returns to be successful. So if that's the case, how could they go wrong coming up with better solutions for the non-attendees who would still want in on the figures?

The sets for the attendees can have the fancy box and special little knick-knacks in it to make it pleasing and more special for them and they can produce more to make available for the club at far more reasonable rates that is well within more peoples budget.

That way, they can still make their money and more of the fandom is served. Think of it this way, put up a scale from 1 to 100 to rate satisfaction level. You'll never reach 100% and 50% would probably be good. What's the collectors club and Botcon currently at? I doubt if it's anywhere near 50%. To me, means lost opportunity on one end and great disappointment on the other.

Maybe that's doing good for them, I just think it can be better.

If they're smart enough to pay attention every once in awhile, they shouldn't have all that tough of a time figuring out what would and wouldn't work, and hell it's for the fans why not ask?

I already got a complete set of Piranacon so I won't be getting it but I haven't then it's a great deal to have one of the best gestalts available even without the G1 color.

More stuff here than I can hope to deal with, but I'll try to hit the important stuff

This shows how little you understand the economics of toymaking. We've been told that the cost per unit doesn't change substantially until you get to about 10000 units. Since we're talking generally about runs of 1000 or 2000, even if you doubled the runs, you wouldn't be able to sell them at half the price. It just doesn't work that way.


How one defines "making anyone rich" is something we're probably not likely to find agreement on, so I'll only comment that this is the kind of line that does little to advance a viewpoint, and serve more to hit emotional responses. That really isn't helpful.

Yes, there are such things as non-profit organizations. They tend to be charitable organizations, providing some service or good for society. I can't imagine how a company that makes toys could even qualify for such a definition. But for the sake of argument, let's say that FP should be non-profit (that's what you want, right?). Little would change. They'd still have to charge enough to make sure that they not only don't lose money, but make enough to pay the salaries of the staff and have enough capital leftover to fund future projects. Pretty much the same as now. You seem to think that someone's making "more than enough" off of these things. Show me the expensive suits or fancy cars that Brian Savage buys, and we may have something to talk about here. But as I see it, he lives reasonably well without being well-to-do, which says to me that he's not unduly profiting off of our love of a certain brand of toys.

You're apparently not hearing us, then. They DID increase production. TWICE. The original stated number was already higher than the previous year's run, and when they saw how many people made pre-registrations in just the first weekend, they increased it even more. When Pete says 30%, that's not a small number. It represents a HUGE risk. One that seemed worth making given the initial response. But you badly misunderstand the risks involved if you can keep saying this was a "no-brainer" and suggest that the increase they made was only "a little." To have planned any better would have required the ability to see into the future.

This is actually something you'll find substantial agreement with me on. I think that FP is too convention-focused and not enough club-focused. I think that there should be more club exclusives, and fewer convention exclusives. But FP is, first and foremost, a convention organizer, so they've started out these first few years doing what they know how to do (and they do it well). By all means, keep encouraging them to do more stuff for those of us that can't attend the convention. But this really needs to be more along the line of "club exclusives" rather than "non-attendee convention packages" in my opinion. They can't shoot themselves in the foot, in regard to the convention, while trying to provide better services to those of us in the club. And if people can just buy the convention packages by staying at home, people won't go to the conventions. Yes, there are fans for whom the convention is worth the experience in and of itself. But for a lot of us, it really is about the toys. That's why I was willing to pay $279 for the non-attendee set this past year (and $179 for the loose set). To go to the convention would have cost me quite a lot more than that less-than-$500, I can say very safely. As it was, I was able to sell the boxed set, keep the loose toys, and end up not being so bad off financially. FP's pricing scheme on those toys seems pretty fair to me.

But I definitely want to see more exclusives for club members, as opposed to convention stuff.

I admit, the asshole comment was probably a bit much(it was late and I was tired when I posted that), and I apologize. But his comment of "if the next one doesn't sell well, we're just not gonna do them anymore" just rubbed me the wrong way(though Pete's reply explained it better, still...). Hopefully, Astrotrain and Air Razor has made them rethink their pricing strategies. Otherwise, they'll axe club exclusives and there will be no point, beyond the free fig and newsletter, in remaining/becoming a member, IF you don't/can't go to the Cons. And with only 1,400 members, can they really afford to keep losing them?

As for hating exclusives of popular characters, "hate" is probably too strong a word. "Dislike" is more like it, and that's just my opinion. You don't have to agree with me or make it your mission to change my mind. It also depends on how they're used. The thing with this year's set was that it was a direct continuation of the Classic's line. I'm glad you had the money to complete your Classics collection, but a lot us didn't at the time. And with the secondary market prices on them now...yeah. Don't get me wrong, I blame Hasbro most of all for their lack of foresight, but FP did willingly choose them too. There's plenty of other molds out there they could've dipped into(Energon Screamer for example, great toy there. Or even Cybertron Screamer). But as I said, Hasbro takes the lion's share of the blame.

Oh and as for Nemmy, paid $50 for him thru Ebay, a far cry from the Botcon set costs. Of course he was also available thru the HasbroToyShop for $25(for like an hour), but of course you remember that, right?

Do I need to join the club before these go on sale or will I have a chance to order them and join the club at the same time (a la the 2007 convention exclusives). I certainly don't want to miss my chance to have this set as I think the Seacons will fit well into my personal TF universe.



I think caps for limited items like this are a good idea and the club should keep them in place. Although I can agree on loosening those caps if a few months go by and they still have plenty left to sell. I realize your intentions here are good since you want to get an extra for your friend, but let's make sure these get spread around before anyone can hoard them (not referring to you specifically), or buy dozens of them to sell on ebay at inflated prices.

I'm seeing that this thread is getting out of hand. Gripes and complaints going over stuff that this thread wasn't intended for.

FP is a business. We all get that. But then it's been too easy for jump in with accusations of them charging prices HIGHER than they need to be. What qualifies you to make that assumption? I don't see you petitioning Hasbro for the rights to Transformers for convention/club purposes.

There's a lot of 'heat rounds' being fired off around here. I don't see anybody coming up with qualifications to show that they would be able to run things better. Putting out these additional figures is a service to the fandom, and I'm pleased with what I've gotten so far.

You'll be able to join the club at the same time you purchase the figures, if in fact you're not already a club member.