I'm not a kid anymore, this isn't the 80s anymore, and Armada characters aren't G1 characters. I see absolutely no irony in it. It's just a gimmick I don't like.

 

I don't even know what this means. It's not the '90s anymore either. Or the 2000s. Four years from now, it won't be the 2010s anymore. Are toys just supposed to stop changing now? Now that it's no longer the '80s, no more new gimmicks to existing characters, please? Like that time is over? If it didn't happen when you were a kid, it's not allowed to happen?


And this isn't G1, either. I wish people could wrap their heads around that idea. The current stuff is no more G1 than Armada was. Or the Bay movies, or whatever. If they made MP Ratchet a Headmaster, yeah, I would throw a flag on the play. Generations is not that.

It is your right not to like the gimmick, and not to buy it. You know what gimmick I don't care about? Combiners. For some reason, TF combiners have never done anything for me, maybe because back in the 1980s, there were a billion cooler combining robots out there than Transformers ever came up with. So I did not buy even one limb of the entire CW line. But I had enough self control not to shit on the gimmick for a straight 16 months for all the people I knew were enjoying it. Not one post of, "BOO-HOO-HOO, why is everything combiners?! Why is Optimus a combiner now?" etc., etc.

 

It means I don't expect partsforming heads just because 80s toys were limited and needed to have partsforming heads. It also means I'm not speaking from a kid's point of view about a then-newer toyline. I'm speaking from my point of view about a line for updating old characters. I couldn't give less of a crap about whether or not kids are supposed to like this.

No, but it is a line for updating G1 characters. If a new toy has a gimmick forced on it that isn't accurate to the original character that I also happen to not like, then of course I'm going to complain. Armada has nothing to do with G1. It's a new continuity and separate toyline so I don't care if it does its own thing the same way I don't care about whether or not RID does its own thing right now.

No, this line is not meant for slavish updates like the MP line is, but that doesn't make it free from criticism of what I feel are stupid features or gimmicks either. I don't give CW Blast Off a free pass for being a jet just because "it's CHUG and CHUG is supposed to update characters." It's a similar thing here.

As long as there's no rule on the forum that forbids me from complaining about gimmicks I'm going to keep complaining about it. I'm not trying to negate other people's enjoyment of the gimmick by complaining about it. If you feel like me complaining is taking away your enjoyment that's your problem, not mine.

 

I'd quite frankly like a Nemesis Prime redeco of every Optimus Prime mold that isn't G2 based or scramble combiner like, in which case I want those to be Scourge and Grand Scourge  

 

Expect Takara to come out with black repaints for the Powermaster Optimus and the new Voyager Optimus - especially since they were the ones who made the black redecoes of the toys those two new releases are paying homage to - Nucleon Quest Super Convoy and Black Convoy.

 

I'm all for headmasters on some characters, if it means we get cool updates (i.e. Galvatron, Blurr), but this is just not correct. I'd rather have a cool ass voyager cannon Galvatron as a Headmaster than not at all. However, Generations is clearly a G1 line. Sure the designs are homages and not the exact thing, but they're not general purpose goons that you could just pop into a Prime collection or an Animated collection. They're modern G1 with stuff thrown into the melting pot, and that's what they're supposed to be. It's no coincidence they look like G1 characters.

You're right and I love that they're fine trying new things, putting spins on characters, even if the gimmicks didn't suit them, but Classics, Universe, Generations, Reveal the Shield and all these other lines are G1 at heart, no matter what's added.

 

If one tries to make problems black and white they often have a simple solution, but problems are rarely black and white. They are more nuanced.

While people complain on the face about the Headmaster versions of characters who were never Headmasters, the problem is deeper than that. This is Classics, dear God in Heaven this is not Armada or anything close to it. And Armada was not well received by collectors, only a very vocal minority that was elated with gimmicks at the expense of any sense of style or quality design. So that argument is all kinds of bad. Anyway, the problem lies with the fact that this is 2016 and Classics is a collector line. What was a bit of a premium line, with a premium feel in regards to actual attention to detail is slowly becoming more like a careless main line thanks to it's overwhelming success. We are seeing gimmicks override the style, the narrative, and the character.

Also, keep in mind in 2016 we have now seen a billion Optimus Primes, several Hot Rod's, etc. Do we really need more faithful designs that are yet unfaithful by being Headmasters? Up to this point, the majority of Classics have been very faithful. Starting with Combiner Wars and continuing here, that has gone out the window for overriding gimmicks. While I personally think that overall the designs are still very good, there has been way more random crap then you would like to see. Hasbro's "Blast Off" and trickery with the retail combiner sets is a great example. These are things you would think would be obvious negatives to anyone who spends 5 minutes getting to know TransFormer fans.

Then there are questions as to why couldn't Triggerhappy and others be Targetmasters? Do they really need to be Headmasters to work in this line? If you think about it, they don't. Same with Optimus, Getaway, etc. For some of these later, lesser known, and less popular characters wouldn't it be nice if for what will likely be their one update opportunity they are done right?

Personally for me it is a mixed bag. While the updates to the Headmasters are great, I don't love the fact the larger classes need helmets to complete looks that may or may not work well. If voyager Galvatron is great but the head is hindered by the gimmick, was the gimmick worth it? Nope.

So while I'm not as hardcore against the idea as some people, I definitely can understand the frustration. Any fan should be able to understand the frustration. I would much rather be a blind fan than a blind defender of my business partner. I can't do good business that way.

 

I wasn't the one who started this debate. I only began discussing in response to people saying that nobody should complain about the Headmaster. I don't know if other people with the same complaint were being unreasonable, and frankly I don't care. The idea that everyone should be happy with Headmasters is wrong.

There are a lot of points I could bring up for each of those toys that I'm familiar with, but I think the biggest point to make is that they were exceptions in their lines. In TR, every character is, as far as I'm concerned, a partsformer.

I personally don't leave toys on a shelf and never touch them again. I like to mess around with them, so I would see the little guy in the vehicle mode. Plus I'd know how it effects the transformation. Something that Ultra Magnus' tiny door and ladder didn't do.

 

Armada Starscream, BW Rattrap, Rhinox, RiD Sky Byte.

GenerationS. Not a "G1 line".

 

Still waiting for my Black/Grey/little bit of blue Scourge/Nemesis Prime from CW Op.

I've got the Japanese Grand Scourge but there's far too much "gold" on that.

Something like this:



Hasbro, I have money for you!

 

I definitely remember complaining about both of them. I didn't mind the Headmasters and Targetmasters, but I wasn't too impressed by transforming engines. I liked the idea of PMOP as a truck/trailer combiner, though.

As for Minicons, while they were fine as mini TFs, it was annoying having to plug them into the main 'bot to activate certain features.

 

No problem. Regarding the Deluxe size, I am not too sure they are much bigger in height (if at all) compared to the CW stuff, but I could be wrong.

 

I would kill for this

 

Nahhh now if we're Nemesis fire Convoy (fireconvoy being overdue) then we could talk.

 

Yes, this has been acknowledged. Plenty of characters have had updates from different continuities, but it is still a G1-centric line.

 

I just want a team for Grand Scourge. I really wish Takara would give us UW standalone Deluxes.

 

We need Pyro before we need RID Optimus Prime

If I'm going to get one red firetruck out of Hotspot, then you can bet I want it to be the one I really wanted as a kid

 

Well, some rumours says that the deluxes are bigger due to the gimmick, so I think the other classes follow the same theory

A very crazy theory:

What if Daniel in exo suit is the partner (headmaster) of Sixshot ?

 

I'd say that wouldn't make any sense to anyone who hasn't seen Headmasters, but there are two types of fans - those who frequent online message boards and already know about it, and those who don't who wouldn't care or just accept it anyway.

 

Save Daniel for Arcee. Sixshot can have the Cobra ninja Stormshadow as his Headmaster.

Of course with Hasbro calling Blaster's head Twincast, this will probably call Sixshot's head Greatshot!