I've always viewed them as being like the white wannabe gangsters. They seem a lot more like some of the teenage punks at my High School then any black people I know.

 

Yeah, you're right, sorry. That was the dark times, the time of the Empire. you know where that quote comes from? Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope. Another exciting film that takes place chronologically fourth!

AOE FTW!  

 

Nope. Racism requires the intent behind it, the desire to insult another people.

The twins are just racially insensitive. The difference is that, in general, the stereotypes are hit by accident or by not knowing what's going on.

Now, Carbombya from the G1 cartoon? That was racist, and that's pretty much the only racist thing in the TFs franchise I can think of off the top of my head.

 

We must never return to the year 2009. It needs to be buried forever  

 

No one on the production team set out to make something offensive it's that no one realized that when the parts came together they could be taken the wrong way.

To some people the look was a little too much like the old racist era of cartoons. Some of the facial features were just too close to something like Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs.

The line about not reading much was just a poorly thought out line. Instead of a line like we can't read that it's an ancient dead language they came up with a line that sounded too much like the Twins were illiterate in general. Been around some racist and yea racist still believe that stupid bullshit about skin color can tell you about a person's intelligence.

And it likely wasn't the best idea to use robots for the want to be gangster characters. If they were white human character people would have said oh it's like Malibu's Most Wanted or Weird Al's White and Nerdy. But when it's not a human actor then people can take things the wrong way like with some of the Star Wars characters.

It's not like the production has experts on what's not kosher. They pretty much missed how insulting the word "mammy" is in parts of the US but they didn't set out to find something insulting to use.

 

For me, and I feel like I've written this about 10 times before, as someone who thinks ROTF should be sealed in concrete and dumped in the North Sea, I never really had a problem with the Twins. I like the voice actors, and the characters were an amusing diversion from a lot of the inscrutable BS that was going on in the narrative around them. My main issue with them was simply that I thought some of their screen time and ILM storage space would have been better used with other bots such as Sideswipe or ... Yeah basically sideswipe!

Of course, none of the "Stereotypes" touched my particular race or economical standing. Had they have, maybe I would feel different. Who knows. I'm English, and I liked Jetfire... apart from the fart chutes... Oh yeah.. Fart chutes , where'd I leave that concrete...

 

I don't think the twins were intended to be racist, just funny (the success of that is debatable).
Apparently, the "wannabe gangsta" shtick was mostly made by the voice actors; Tom Kenny and Reno Wilson (who is actually black). In fact, Reno Wilson was surprised to find that he was being offensive to himself. Certain aspects of this supposed racism I'm pretty sure are the result of people reading into it too deeply. For example: When Skids and Mudflap said they couldn't read, I'm almost certain that was meant to imply they couldn't read a dead language, rather than imply they were illiterate as a stereotype.

 

No.

 

If anything, they were terribly dated I mean, is this 1990? They were one step away from wearing backwards facing baggy jeans.

 

No they are not racist. And they are also not stereotypes (Because they are not black, they are orange and red).

However, they are still horrible characters and if you dislike them, you should dislike them for beeing terribly written and taking away from Revenge of the Fallen as a whole, not because of some wannabe political correctness reason.

 

Do you understand what co-opting a culture is and why it's racist? If you don't, it's a good idea not to engage in conversations that follow your line of reasoning. These discussions have been happening a long, long time before the Michael Bay movies and the Twins, and as much as TF board members would like to think they are taking on a new and enlightened perspective whenever they announce this...believe me, it's a golden oldie of an argument. "This isn't racist. YOU'RE racist for thinking so!" At almost every significant Civil Rights moment in American history, it's cropped up like clockwork.

I don't always feel the need to attack and analyze every stereotype in movie history, but man, I don't think I've ever felt the need to actively defend them. Ever. Even when I thought people were overreacting to Jazz in the first movie, I never saw it as necessary to sing it to the heavens.

Everybody's a little bit racist. The world's a racist place. It's better to own up to that and control the damage than it is to try and deny it exists in the world we choose to live in. Those two robots will not send civilization crashing to a halt because they are stereotypes. They are not going to destroy the franchise or erode the progress we've made as a nation. But they were created by fallible human beings who make mistakes and aren't always 100% sensitive. That's the bottom line.

 

So, in short, if someone has a different opinion, a different take, a different world view and comes to different conclusions than yours, they are then, by default, factually incorrect and therefore unqualified to participate in the discussion.
Only after they change and become more like you will they be o.k. enough to re-join the conversation.

Please tell me I am wrong.

 

It really depends on the topic at hand. If someone says the earth is flat in a astronomy or geography discussion, for example, that person is indeed factually incorrect and should not take part in the discussion.

 

^ Yep.

 

But that's they're opinion, and all opinions are equally sacred and untouchable, no matter what!  

 

Which is of course the perfect analogy for a movie forum where giant transforming alien robots are discussed  

I don't think they were intended to be racist at all, but I do think some of Bay's "tweaks" such as the gold teeth were unnecessary

 

They are definitely not racist, and i have never understood why people say they are, those guys are just 2 goofballs who speak and act a lot different from other Transformers.

 

This. Let's not forget to add much more immature to their differentiation from the other Autobots.

 

Oh, you're totally wrong. You saw a post where I mentioned a specific phenomenon known as co-opting a culture and how it goes to the heart of the issue of racism, you then tuned out the words and replaced them in your head with any "different opinion." As far as co-opting a culture being a thing that exists in the world we both live in, there are no two equally valid opinions on it. There is only the fact that it exists. If people think it doesn't, then they are, by default, factually incorrect.

And from what I've read, most people seem to understand that it's a thing, even the ones who claim the Twins aren't racist. They understand that these robots are mimicking African American culture, whether they choose to add another degree of separation with the claim that they are imitating white people imitating black people or not. I don't think they even disagree with what you see as my "opinion."

So let me clarify...yes, I think people should be very VERY familiar with racism in all its shapes and sizes before making the claim that something's not racist. Otherwise, it's an ignorant opinion. People can feel free to make ignorant opinions, I just wouldn't advise it. It kind of seems like common sense to me. If I have no idea what sexism is, I'm not going to say that Andrew Dice Clay isn't sexist. If I have no idea what punk rock is, I'm not going to say that Reel Big Fish aren't punk. Because I would be presenting an ill-informed opinion as a fact.

 

They're exaggerated caricatures based on a certain type of stereotype that exists in the media, like Wheelie, Jetfire and the Wreckers.


Why do we never get 'are the Wreckers xenophobic?' threads.