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What do you think of the Micheal Bay hate?

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:05 AM   #1
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What do you think of the Micheal Bay hate?

I go to IGN for my news on games, movies and so on and for a long while I've had the displeasure of skimming the comments section when there were articles about Ninja Turtles. The comments quickly become typical Bay hate that by now has become incredibly thoughtless and "hive-mind" in nature.

We all agree that Revenge of the Fallen wasn't the greatest which is true. People say that the 3 films don't have a plot which is not true. People also say that the writers suck but then I say that "you may think that they do but you're probably going to watch Star Trek".

The typical thing a typical Bay Hater says is for example: explosion, explosion, explosions, ass, humping robots, racist joke. I read these over and over again. The funny thing is that these are examples of what was wrong with ROTF not what was wrong with all the other films Bay has done in the past such as Bad Boys, Armageddon and so on.

Many people also seem to forget that they went to see an action movie and many times action movies have basic plots and the forte is the action. I assumed this was obvious. And even if DOTM had a simple plot and even if the acting in some areas wasn't the best, the action was great. Few Transformers episodes have amazing plots and even the Avengers didn't have the best plot yet it got praised by fans for seeming "just like the show".

I'm not saying that some of Bay's choices were tasteful e.g. Devastator's wrecking balls, but I also think that fans are blowing things out of proportion and unless they're going out to watch a comedy it's seemingly impossible to just go to the cinema and have a good time.

Not to mention that Bay is getting flak about Ninja Turtles even though time after time I tell them that he's not even directing the film.

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:09 AM   #2
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Agree with you 100%.

And Bay haters flooding in to defend themselves in 3...2...1...

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:16 AM   #3
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There's two sides to this.

Yes, Bay can set up good explosions.

However, Avengers is a testament to the fact that you can have a very entertaining action flick that does not rely on shaky-cam you-can-barely-follow-what's going-on-cinematography, can have a decent plot with enjoyable characters, none of whom need to be over-the-top comic relief, and still make a shitload of money that makes even Michael Bay's biggest accomplishments pale in comparison.

Or, to put it even more simply: Do action movies need to be well-crafted to be entertaining? No. But does that mean they need to be dumbed down to appeal to a large audience? No.

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:24 AM   #4
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Bay is not the master of his craft that he'd like to think he is. The above reference to the Avengers was spot on.

Bay - no bueno.

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:29 AM   #5
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Yes. There are over the top haters. Just like there are over the top defenders. And I believe both should be condemned.

However, there are over the top, impossible explosions, sex jokes and possibly racism in all his films. Look at that bus bursting into flames as Bonecrusher smashes through it, Sam's happy time, the scamming Black cars salesman and black hacker, Cons bursting into flames as Optimus strikes them with swords in Chicago, Brains in Carly's underwear draw and Hardcore Eddie the black coward.

Also, an action flick can have a well thought out plot and good characters and still be enjoyable. And one of my biggest problems with the films is how personality deprived the Transformers are, not the bad plots.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Nevermore View Post
There's two sides to this.

Yes, Bay can set up good explosions.

However, Avengers is a testament to the fact that you can have a very entertaining action flick that does not rely on shaky-cam you-can-barely-follow-what's going-on-cinematography, can have a decent plot with enjoyable characters, none of whom need to be over-the-top comic relief, and still make a shitload of money that makes even Michael Bay's biggest accomplishments pale in comparison.

Or, to put it even more simply: Do action movies need to be well-crafted to be entertaining? No. But does that mean they need to be dumbed down to appeal to a large audience? No.
I think the difference with Avengers though was that they had time to craft each character individually before lumping them together otherwise we would have had character that would have been a bit 2-dimensional and clichéd to their comic counterpart.

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Yes. There are over the top haters. Just like there are over the top defenders. And I believe both should be condemned.

However, there are over the top, impossible explosions, sex jokes and possibly racism in all his films. Look at that bus bursting into flames as Bonecrusher smashes through it, Sam's happy time, the scamming Black cars salesman and black hacker, Cons bursting into flames as Optimus strikes them with swords in Chicago, Brains in Carly's underwear draw and Hardcore Eddie the black coward.

Also, an action flick can have a well thought out plot and good characters and still be enjoyable. And one of my biggest problems with the films is how personality deprived the Transformers are, not the bad plots.
I don't see what the ethnicity of the salesman and the hacker have to do with anything. Maybe you'd care to elaborate? Unless these are stereotypes in which case they've gone over my head. If this isn't that obvious a problem though, are they really a problem?

I would have liked more personality from the bots too but isn't down to multiple factors such as screentime, writing, acing and so on? Like I've said, there's only so much characterisation you can have in this movie with so many characters; it a problem Avengers avoided but Transformers can't have that luxury.

In the end however, we're comparing one style of filming to another. I personally like the style but I admit to liking the focus in DOTM.

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:52 AM   #7
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Eh, haters gonna hate, I'll continue to enjoy the films as some mindless fun.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:55 AM   #8
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I think the difference with Avengers though was that they had time to craft each character individually before lumping them together otherwise we would have had character that would have been a bit 2-dimensional and clichéd to their comic counterpart.



I don't see what the ethnicity of the salesman and the hacker have to do with anything. Maybe you'd care to elaborate? Unless these are stereotypes in which case they've gone over my head. If this isn't that obvious a problem though, are they really a problem?

I would have liked more personality from the bots too but isn't down to multiple factors such as screentime, writing, acing and so on? Like I've said, there's only so much characterisation you can have in this movie with so many characters; it a problem Avengers avoided but Transformers can't have that luxury.

In the end however, we're comparing one style of filming to another. I personally like the style but I admit to liking the focus in DOTM.
The problem is that, outside of Epps, all the black people in the TF trilogy were, incapable of fighting (Jazz), liars (salesman), hackers (Glen), wannabes (Twins) and cowardly(Eddie). However this may be Bay being unable to portray characters in his films that aren't uncreative stereotypes and not him being racist. However the strong possibility of racism is there.

Bay may not have a ton of films but the first one showed you can have serious Transformers with some basic character and even have fun with them without reducing them to total comic relief. Gun happy Ironhide, playful Ratchet and whatever you'd call Jazz. So for character, I don't think it's as much as he can't do it but he doesn't take TF seriously enough to try.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:48 AM   #9
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The problem is that, outside of Epps, all the black people in the TF trilogy were, incapable of fighting (Jazz), liars (salesman), hackers (Glen), wannabes (Twins) and cowardly(Eddie). However this may be Bay being unable to portray characters in his films that aren't uncreative stereotypes and not him being racist. However the strong possibility of racism is there.

Bay may not have a ton of films but the first one showed you can have serious Transformers with some basic character and even have fun with them without reducing them to total comic relief. Gun happy Ironhide, playful Ratchet and whatever you'd call Jazz. So for character, I don't think it's as much as he can't do it but he doesn't take TF seriously enough to try.
You're just over-analysing characters. Bernie Mac was funny and I saw no-one who had a problem with his character. Glen was a useful character, the Twins were emulating a subculture that many teenagers are adopting (you should live in South East London) and so on. If these characters were white would Bay still be racist? Or would it suddenly not become racist because the majority of characters in the films are white?

I think that these problems are personal to you because you're lumping all of the "black" characters together. You're reading way too much into it.

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Old 04-05-2013, 08:58 AM   #10
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Eh, haters gonna hate, I'll continue to enjoy the films as some mindless fun.
Yep.

I'm in the middle of watching G1 for the 4th time and that's all it was. Mindless fun. They have the most ridiculous things.
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