the TF's metal

It's all good, man. Thanks for hearing me out.

Moving on...

For as entertaining and equally educated as Quantum Penguin's posts are, it still doesn't sell me on trans-scanning. It's not about having to convince anyone since the whole idea is still just a concept, a theory, an elongated way to attempt explaining & justify what I personally consider to be nothing more than a poorly thought out plot device that was introduced for nothing else that to make things easy for film sake. It's not even close to being based off a proven formula, so no science riddled hypothetical explanation in the world will ever change my mind or cause me to get on board with the concept. As I referenced earlier, and has been proven time & again with the G1 mass shifting vs. subspace debate, you can make *anything* seem believable or plausible if you lace the theory with enough science-speak 'Star Trek / Jurassic Park lingo' and a ton of "what if's" and "maybe's" at the beginning & end of every sentence. The only thing outside of it actually being a indisputable proven fact - which it isn't - is whether or not you, as a fan or reader, choose to accept it. In this case - I don't - and I personally happen to feel it was one of the main weaknesses of the movie. Nothing more and nothing less. If that's considered bashing, then so be it I guess.

And this post is just in general btw, not directed at you (Poho) or anyone specifically. If nothing else, this thread has at least been a good read.

In the novels I believe, it was sated that the TFs gathered materials from their surroundings to create accesories and imitate materials, this was shown since the protoform is only the skeleton, but once they reformat, they are now all bulky with accesories and armor, that's a sign that they gathered materials that were available to them.

But I prefer quantum penguin's explanation.

I am fairly certain that either in Ghost of Yesterday or in the DVD special features it was mentioned that the Bot's are made up entirely of Microscopic mechanical organisms "Nanites"...This was mentioned as a definite....I'll watch again to make sure...But I am sure the dude from ILM that was talking about the designs of the Bot's and laughed at the G1 style said that the Bots were all made up of these organisms.

i had heard that scientists had recently created this type of transparent metal that can be developed in space(like on the space station)and it still retains its durability even though you can see through it like glass.

that could explain transformer glass toughness.

We already have paper and plastic that feels like metal and leather, it's pretty safe to assume it's entirely possible to make metal look and feel like another material.

Since we're on the topic of TF science, does anyone wonder how Transformers take off from planets? They travel through space in those protoform pod thingies, but those things don't look like they can FIRST fly and break the planet's gravity pull... unless it's another of those weird Star Wars like things.

yeah,i didnt like that there wasnt an autobot ship.

the whole crashing to earth like meteorites dosnt sit well with me.

I've read somewhere that even seemingly impossible things can be done if you can use logic and physics to circumvent the barriers preventing you from doing it. I don't remember where I read this, but this seems to be the standing opinion of modern physicists. This is the source of so-called FTL travel and repulsorlift technologies of science fiction, which might not be any more believable than mass shifting or reformatting, but which have already come to a kind of fruition with the invention of the E-drive. They've figured out that Time Travel should be possible, except that changing the past is not and one can only travel to a period after time travel was invented. But even then, I suspect that expanding on these limitations will just be a matter of figuring out how to circumvent them using physics, perhaps by stepping off into another universe where the past was different, or actually creating one where you appeared out of nowhere in 1861, as an artificial branch that no-one will even remember.

Meh it's not much different than the actual animals on earth can do.

We have birds who 'transform' and chameleons, why can't aliens have their own version of this within technology? And that bird doesn't mass shift either.

As for the ships. That hasn't been touched upon yet really. All Sam knows of is the meteor forms he sees, as do other humans. This does not mean they don't have a ship on the darkside of the moon, or on mars. Just as the decepticons may have a ship stored somewhere too. Hence why I call the meteor forms, entry forms. As they are for atmospheric entry. Plus Ghosts of yesterday mentioned ships. But not sure if it's to be considered canon. Therefore it can be assumed BB signaled the ship, not any random meteors nearby, and not all the way back to cybertron for them to immediately arrive like that.

Plus a ship of that size entering our atmosphere would freak the world out, whereas meteors can be hidden as a natural universal space event.
And the decepticons were trying to covertly recon before invasion, so why would they cause a mass panic using a ship as well? Especially when only a 'recon team' amount of bots are even on earth?

Transforming bird proof. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es52WQKLumI

As for glass and tires, it's a simple matter of density and opaqueness. The rescanning is rather moot barring power consumed. I would suspect due to the natural use of it as a concealment, there wouldn't be any 'trace evidence' of a switch in form to the world around them. They do contain a form of 'shielding' as has been shown with blackout, that may contain this from the world around them. It's not like they are reforming actual earth metals into new parts, they are essentially a form of 'organic living' metal. Something not of this Earth. Which would equate to being skin like, or even callused in the case of entry forms. By controlling density as such without heat or cold, they could also be given more usage without need of the area around them being harmed. I wouldn't call it lazy on the writer's part, just something that has yet to be explored fully. That and the fact they were given life by what's essentially a TF version of the TMA-0. That also allows them to change shape at will without harm to surroundings. As it's what the allspark/tma like construct is capable of. Albeit the TMA can change size at will, all the allspark gave them was the ability to change shape at will. Wiki or google 2001: a space oddyssey or Tycho Magnetic Anomaly or Monolith. It can also be assumed thanks to the allspark trials by S7, that the allspark itself modifies what it radiates with an organic like living material that's not exactly metal.
That nokia wasn't metal, it was plastics and circuitry plus some metal, as was the 360 and Dewbot. So something the Anomaly that is the Allspark does is what creates this innate potential. Possibly even evolving said circuitry bots into the closest thing of itself that it can within it's own parameters. Or trying to create guardians for itself. Due to its unknown origin, even assuming the bots are made of metal could be a misnomer.

With this in mind, the easiest answer is just a simple "It's beyond current earth science to grasp as of yet." And let the movie series delve into it as it sees fit for their usage and ideas. Because we are dealing with things earth science can barely grasp, but quickly is learning how to in this world.

My eBay Items.
They've all gotta go!

My materials question has been just how much do the bot weigh in at. Some parts of the film the robots seem really light and then the same robot in other parts of the film comes off as really heavy.

If they are really heavy then they shouldn't be able to flip around like Ninja Turtles since the heavier you get the more it cuts down on how you can move. Just compare the handling of a very small car to a very large car. Or a large heavy big muscles wrestler compared to the smaller lighter wrestlers.

If they are really light would they really be able to bust up the street?

I know I know movie magic and all that, but some times you want a little physics worked in to help notch up the realism.

Well the only usage of 'flipping' that was really used was mostly momentum carried.

Ironhide had to use his canons to get momentum to flip, and Jazz had speed built up from driving. Ratchet is offscreen before his axe spiral into Devastator, so that is the only 'acrobatics' not accounted for in using physics. Other than that, their mass is equilvalant to their strength and stature. They aren't hindered by earth movements as our skeletons have a rigid structure and size coded into our dna. A cybertronian on the other hand, a size like jazz or BB may be their typical gymnast size and we don't even know. These beings aren't hindered by our personal 'size' problems, as they have the strength and mental know how to calculate how to use it, let alone have been using it their entire life. We can't exactly govern them by human movement physics, when they are anything but human. But on that same note, we never see bots the size of Megatron or Prime doing acrobatics either. So they may be outside the size limits to even use that vs bots like Jazz-Ratchet.

IE Ironhide's canon scene, he drives, transforms and handsprings, realizes oh crap not enough momentum to follow through, but instead of landing on his head, uses his canons for the extra push to follow through.

My eBay Items.
They've all gotta go!