Um, yeah. Lets take your broccoli example. Will you like Broccoli? Maybe. Well, this vegetable tastes kinda like broccoli, do you like this vegetable? No. Well, this vegetable has the texture of broccoli, do you like the texture of this vegetable? No. And so on and so on. You don't have to go trying every single thing in life to see for sure. You can also make rationed decisions. Do you think you will like the new X movie? Maybe. Its starring these actors, do you like them? Yes. Its directed by these directors, do you like the director? Yes. Its written by these writers, do you like their previous writing? Yes. And my first example still works. To truly, 100% know something, then you have to go and find out for yourself firsthand. But people don't need to do that. They can reason things out. Thats the benefit of having a working intellect. It happens in our law system all the time. It also happens around the world all the time too. Is Canada going to break away form NAFTA? According to your logic, we'd have to go into Canada and delve into their government to actually find out. But instead, we use reasoning to conclude a decision w/o your trial and error method. XFormer: I completely understand what you are saying. Don't sweat not being understood on these boards. People hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see. I personally understood your argument from the beginning. Others thought, for some reason, you meant stick a TF into a human suit. Josh: Just because YOU have read all these threads and have had these discussions before doesn't mean others have. Let them discuss it to if they want to. Why are you trying to stop them talking just because you personally have supposedly heard all the reasons?
That is if one deliberately overlooks Jazz, and to a less extent, Optimus Prime. Jazz alone is proof positive that a Bayformer can look a lot like a G1 bot without that bogus cardboard box arguement.
Personally, I think that the bot designs went way too far. Making them more complex is fine... but don't toss the baby out with the bath water! Aside from their faces, the only major problem I has was the fact that you could tell that their bot modes had little to do with their vehicle modes. Not only can you tell by looking, but it was verified by ILM in various publications. Each transformation was made up according to the scene it was in. Sometimes an arm would have to be broken in half or pass thru a hood or something in order to get to where it had to go. Not realistic at all. That, and people said G1 couldn't be done because "where do the seats go?", and "the bot parts would have to fill up the passenger compartment". But look at Bays' TF's? Where do the seats go with them? That, and there is WAY more robot in Bayformers than there is vehicle. Quite literally, you have robot parts that appear from no-where! And ILM admits that. Yet nobody criticizes Bayformers for the same stuff they criticize G1 for. People say that you would have to cheat to get G1 designs to work. You point out that cheating was used to make Bayformers work. Then they say "of course you have to cheat to make CG work!" It boggles the mind... I guess when G1 does it, it's bad but when Bay does it, it's good.
Yea I kinda have to agree with you on the cheat criticizing. I remember a few threads where people actually thought that cheating on G1 was such a bad thing, and ILM would never even think of cheating in the new TF movie. And I really just had to roll my eyes. Cheating in animation is done for this reason; to save money, and to save time. And if it looks good, then who cares?! And mind you; their is a difference between cheating, and just being plain sloppy. I've seen some good animation in G1, and I've seen some bad. Same thing goes to BW too, and the other series. I certainly will never blame an animator for cheating as long as it's a good one.
You're overanalyzing it. All I was saying was that if the movie never existed, none of the alternative designs could be "better" than it. It;s like saying "Transformers 2000" would've been better than RID.
Ok, you need some pointers on debate. I think most of us establish an unsaid baseline of assumptions and facts. We don't have to go about before each debate confirming these assumptions. We all know that if something didn't exist that we can't compare something else to it. I mean, thats a very basic concept. If you didn't exist, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But I don't go around making comments like that because they carry so little value. I mean, really? That statement carries absolutely zero value. I thought you were saying it was impossible to know how good something will be without actually trying it. This whole existence thing is ridiculous. Either you're backtracking or you're a very very poor discusser.
Dude, back off. Whats with you? You've been harrassing me on various threads now. Just chill and leave me alone. Worse things have been said towards me and others and no one threw up a hissy fit then. Go harrass someone else. If you have some private grudge towards me for something in the past, PM me and we will take care of it in private.
If I had something personal against you, you'd damn well know about it. However, your behaviour when anyone disagrees with you is reprehensible. You bitch, moan, complain, drag up freedom of speech to cover your backhanded insults, and belittle other people's opinions. You are incredibly rude to those who do not share your point of view, and then you sit back with a "who me?" look on your face when you're called on it. So my problem with you extends as far as the way you treat other people. You be more polite, and I'll stop calling you on it. However for the sake of board harmony, I'm simply going to put you on my ignore list, and let other people get annoyed with you.
jazz is the only movie toy i like and esp the target version, is that because its closest 'to what i know'?? im not sure, its probably the least fussy looking toy and the parts seem to hang in the right directions, unlike jumbled BB08, oh and the head is very cool, like a microman acroyear, that has to be a good thing!!
I just want to point something out here - Some of the people that come to this message board do so for the purpose of enjoying themselves. I know and recognize that you are very interested in procedurally and intelligently taking apart the major parts of an opposing viewpoint and analyzing the way people respond to these viewpoints, but there's something important to remember here: Not everyone enjoys dissecting a point with the thoroughness that you do - some of us just come here to throw in a simple, one-or-two sentence "That's my 2 cents on the matter" and leave it at that. In fact - and this may come as a surprise - people's care/concern about Transformers in general is sometimes low enough that they're not interested in eloquently debating a point like this. They get a laugh or a shrug out of posting one or two sentences and that's good enough for them. Now, I don't want to stand in your way - if you want to continue to dissect simple, "my 2 cents" post that a person drops as if they were stepping up to the podium, go to town. However, you may find that, at the end of the day, you are the only (or one of the few) people interested in thoroughly dissecting what is, at this point, yesterday's news.
Believe me, I am not as worked up about this as others think I am. I really am not. I am calmly responding on here when I have free time. Let me just respond to something on here. It will seem as if I am just keeping this going on, but I promise this will be my last post on this thread. This is a place for discussion. Everyone comes on here and leaves an opinion. Which is fine. Others on here, look at other's opinions and either agree or disagree with them. Which is also fine. Thats what the Quote feature is for. Its happened numerous times. I was only doing the same thing, when I disagreed with another poster's premise. Many others have done the same, yourself probably included. I also think that the person who responded to me, did so in a reasoned way. He even used reasoning for his argument and also gave an example. So I gave him my reasons back. It seems we had a misunderstanding and I didn't see his main point. I thought the main point had zero value as it was obvious. I am sorry if I was too offensive. Honestly, though, I've heard MUCH MUCH worse from others on this board. I've received much worse from this board. Of course, that doesn't make what I did right if the person was truly offended by my words - so I apologized. As far as Draven goes, he has been on me for a while now. Its very easy for him to take it out on me since he thinks I am some sort of evil miscreant. But I really am not. And I definitely didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. But I will disagree with someone if I believe their premise or paradigm is wrong. I can respect that they have their own opinions tho. I will gladly admit I am wrong if I think I am. I don't know how you expect me to determine who truly wants to debate these topics thoroughly and who doesn't. I think you are unfairly ostracising me for things you probably have done yourself and see others do on a daily basis. If you want to make new rules or guidelines, I will gladly follow them. Just apply it fairly to EVERYONE.
Here's the problem: Iron Man Mark I from the movie looks like a shitload of metal with a few plates put on him. Reminds of something, somehow.
So, I just read through this whole thread. It was therapeutic, you guys should try it. After reading how far off track you guys got, I have this to say: Yes! I think we should start a petition! The "Make the Movie More G1" petition! If we get 100,000 people to sign it, I think we can go back in time and make the movie and the DVD and game releases have better designs. Or not. Seriously people, what is the point of arguing either side of this? Nothing can be done either way. I was a very verbal hater of the movie designs, and I feel that many of my opinions are still valid, at least to me. However, I only really did that back when I felt my measly voice might be heard. It doesn't matter anymore. Live, learn, and let it go. Also, in a debate, see the other guys point of view. Remember that you guys aren't talking about facts, you're exchanging opinions. Just because you love G1 and he loves Beast Machines doesn't make you right and him wrong. It's okay for someone to disagree with you and still be a good person.
This is kind of weird, but when I see a_person's avatar of movie megatron, I'm reminded more of a Lord of the Rings Orukai encased in heavy armor than the great Decepticon leader.
It looks ok - but think of the practicality if this was a living, breathing?!? robot. For starters he can barely see over the top of the cabin and certainly couldnt look at something (like a human) standing at his feet. I dont think the decision to go complex was purely stylistic. They had to go that way in oder to give the robots the full range of movement available to humans. If you look at some of the G1 robot designs they looked ok as standing robots - but they didnt have a great deal of articulation. Even the masterpiece range dont have the articulation that the movie TF's have. These ones do show a more articulate and simple design - but I think it looks too much like they could have been created by humans - and not a life form of its own. and one just for fun
I've always loved the most recent 'running' one. I think the animators really had the movement down by the time they did this - when it's 'dives' into alt mode - just fab! It's actually the kind of thing I expected for the movie, but it was not to be. Oh well.
