Then where did plants come from if all of them stopped existing? No, it works against you because of the sheer number of animals that would exist, there would be some part of an animal that was lasered into metal that was missed...given how there was a transformium dino fossil in the film so obviously the Creators didn't have a 100% extraction rate.
They didn't all stop existing. What's your point? Like I said, the fossilized dinosaurs that we have could have died and been fossilized before the creators showed up. Dinosaurs were roaming the planet for millions of years before they went extinct.
If you read what I actually wrote you would see that I didn't say birds were the only animals that survived. I said that dinosaurs other than birds were among the life forms that went extinct as a result of the Creators' actions as well as the Yucatan bolide impact and Deccan volcanism and perhaps other environmental changes at the time(given that the Seed detonations undoubtedly reduced their populations enough to make any surviving dinosaurs more vulnerable to other changes at the time). I never said humanity's mammalian ancestors were wiped out; I didn't mention mammals at all. Also, why would most dinosaur fossils be made of Transformium because of the Seed detonations and Transformium harvesting? Dinosaurs lived from the Middle Triassic to the end of Maastrichtian. The dinosaur extinction was just a blip geologically speaking and a tiny fraction of the time they were alive as a group. The vast, vast majority of dinosaurs that were fossils would have been buried in sedimentary rocks in the upper parts of the Earth's crust. The Transformium was created and the vast majority of it harvested on the Earth's surface. Dinosaur fossils buried in the Earth would not have been affected by it. Also, it's not like there aren't actual elements with the "-ium" suffix attached, whether one likes the Transformium name or not.
OMFG this is SO misguidedly insipid and EXACTLY the type of shit I was talking about in this thread earlier. The ENTIRE POINT of the opening for TF:AoE was to tie the history of Transformers into the ACTUAL history of Earth even further than before by linking them to the Great Extinction of dinosaurs. You know what JUST SO HAPPENED to not only survive but THRIVE in the absence of dinosaurs? That's right...MAMMALS. It's why we're not all still rats and voles and shit serving under the heels of our reptilian overlords. Y'know. Grade school history and shit like that? In other words, the Creators bombed the hell out of the most massive lifeforms on Earth at the time to maximize their harvest of Transformium and thereby cleared a path for US inadvertently. Just like the prevailing theory of the Extinction Level Event we ALL grew up hearing about and should know better than to be distracted from by Bay-blinders by now. Ugh. PUZZLE PIECES. It's really pretty obvious. Except NOPE. Super-simple answer. MILLIONS of years worth of dinosaurs died before and probably even after the Creators wiped out MOST of the BIGGEST dinosaurs to maximize their Transformium harvest at that ONE particular time. Still leaves PLENTY of fossils from before and after, doesn't it? OMFG just like the meteoroid which likely REALLY caused their eventual extinction in real life. And look at us finding all that stuff all the time despite their having blinked out of existence on an evolutionary nanosecond. And HEY, look at all the other shit that didn't die in the process. AND ALMOST ALL OF THE TRANSFORMIUM WAS HARVESTED, LOLFAIL. Museums and stuff are great, btw. Ah, that old straw-man chestnut nonsense. As is made PLAINLY clear within the bonus material interview on the TF:AoE DVD/BD, which practically serves as a supplement to this INCREDIBLY, DESPERATELY misconstrued interview worth of comments on the matter, Kruger makes it EXCRUCIATINGLY CLEAR that he wrote what made sense from an informed point of view yet still made concessions to the "Anti-Kid-Fun Button" Orci & Kurtzman themselves discussed so much, where part of the job is to allow for the over-the-top spectacle, action set-pieces Bay & co. suggest. Working backwards from what's most awesome. And RIGHTFULLY so. It's a fucking HASBRO movie, ffs. His point was ALL TOO CLEAR and the disingenuous "point" of everyone who misconstrues it OVER AND OVER AGAIN is likewise PAINFULLY transparent. These movies are basically theme park rides in cinematic form and certain concessions must be made to preserve that quality. He's not saying there's NO LOGIC and he was sleepwalking through his job, he's saying that form follows function and at a certain point you have to accommodate the needs of a visual medium's function to sell spectacle to sell tickets and sell toys. Hey, GUESS WHAT?!? In space no one can hear you scream. Try telling that to every space movie with sound effects outside the spaceships! Double-standard much? It's really as simple as that. The first five minutes of the movie LITERALLY showed us that your point is completely moot. Little dino-guy escaped the blasts, as did TONS of fauna and flora in the immediate area. PAY ATTENTION. OMFG, jmfc THANK YOU. Very well said. AS ALWAYS. \m/
Galvatross, CKPrime, and Hazekiah VS Autobot Burnout !! This is like the ROTF forest fight all over again! (try not to think about how that fight ended AB!) I feel like I should jump in and help you AB, im just trying to find my angle!
Great post Hazekiah, but I just want to post some things about that scene. The little dino-guy is the small, bipedal Psittacosaurus, or "parrot lizard." Many species are known from the Early Cretaceous of Asia. The cranial ornamentation looks like it's based on Psittacosaurus sibiricus, which was found in Russia. Additionally, the quill-like structures on its tail are based on actual fossils found from a Psittacosaurus specimen found in Liaoning, China, which is where a lot of the feathered dinosaurs have been found in lake sediments the last few decades. That little surviving Psittacosaurus is among the best looking dinosaurs I have ever seen on screen even if it lived well before the actual terminal Cretaceous extinction in real life. Also, that shot of the Psittacosaurus meandering through the metallicized dinosaur garden and viewing the Creators harvesting Transformium is gorgeous and very haunting in its own way. Also, the Psittacosaurus squabbles with a few smaller dinosaurs in the opening scene. They have quill-like structures on their backs and tails, so one could easily think they are juvenile psittacosaurs. However, on closer inspection you can see that they are in fact small dinosaurs called heterodontosaurids with long tails, gracile leg proportions, and canine-like teeth. What exact species is not certain due to picture size and resolution, but the primitive feathers or quills on their backs are based on an actual specimen of a Late Jurassic Chinese genus called Tianyulong, and they have a small, fleshy bump on their snouts which is based on some reconstructions of a South African heterodontosaurid called Pegomastax, which like most heterodontosaurids is known from earlier in the Mesozoic. My guess is that they were meant to be Tianyulong, but I can't be certain. The size is right, and the integument was definitely inspired by Tianyulong. Tianyulong lacks incisiform teeth in front of its caniniform teeth on its premaxilla (beaked front of its upper jaw), but I couldn't tell if it lacked those or not from watching the film. To have realistic looking Psittacosaurus and heterodontosaurids in a Transformers film is awesome!
How did Transformium go unknown for so long is my point. The first movie establishes that Megatron is in fact the source of all sophisticated modern technology through reverse engineering. AoE retroactively establishes that Megatron was made from Transformium, which sort of raises a problem of how S7 actually could have derived stuff like integrated microchips using natural resources like silicon, when Megatron was 100% made of a not-naturally occuring alien metal. And as a side note, that right there destroys the idea that making knockoff transformers was actually a viable idea to market weapons the world over because they'd still be worthless in the extreme cold. Since otherwise how did Megatron stay cooped up in Hoover Dam for so long AND how did Bumblebee get captured if Transformium was not inherently vulnerable to freezing over? ...except in this same post you later will contradict this very claim. The meteor strike that killed the dinosaurs did a large portion of killing in its own right, but it was the lethal amounts of poisonous gasses and debris launched into the atmosphere that was truly the bigger killer in that scenario by suffocating anything on the surface that breathed. In fact, what even is the point of forcing the chronology to be fetishistically forcing Earth to be more important to Cybertron than Cybertron? The only thing that the opening established is that the laser has the power to turn organic matter into plot-device-onium - the fact that it is going on 65 million years ago to an already well-extinct-by-present-day group that is the dinosaurs literally isn't related to the film's plot in the least beyond being about as conveniently only discovered as being in the Earth as other fictional metals like Adamantium from the X-men franchise or Unobtainium from The Core. Given they're melting down actual Cybertronians for it anyway it could easily be altered in the plot that the metal does not actually exist on Earth but was extracted from dead Decepticons and its properties discovered through black project research (not a stretch given KSI already is this to the very government funding it though Cemetery Wind). Thus, the importance of the Seed being revealed as the means of farming the stuff is exponentially greater AND it means the introduction of the laser in present day doesn't need to change anything it does in the film, but by dropping the needless 'this already happened 65 million years ago!' garbage plot point means it is something actually alien on Earth and breaks the formula of the movies not having a plot that can't work without some stupid crap in the past everybody didn't notice existing until now. And as for those overhyped Dinobots? Well, discounting the fact numerous other posters at numerous points in the past continually told me that the fact transformium largely came from dino bones has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with how the Dinobots in the film are walking dino bones made of transformium, the entire relation of the alt. modes to prehistoric Earth beasts can be dropped (particularly in Swoop's case since the two-headed aspect never happened with the dinosaur equivalent) and they can be instead passed off as being based on alien beasts *cough*Monsterbots*cough* that HAPPEN to resemble dinosaurs. Thus, the whole 'prehistoric connection' nonsense can be excised from the film entirely with only a few slight changes and the film otherwise isn't different in the slightest in content, but improved by actually introducing a NEW threat instead of having to shoehorn in random connections to history that aren't relevant to the actual plot. Even if the dinos were around...we would not be rats and voles because, y'know, we're kinda sorta far more closely related to primates, not rodents. Pluto was still a planet when I was in grade school so the reality is accepted fact can change even in the history books. Heck, even with the dinosaurs themselves, things change. The concept of dinosaurs at the time of the G1 Dinobots have altered such that the T-Rex Grimlock is based on is dramatically more modeled on the idea of an agile predator more than a giant, slow lizard with tiny arms, while the very idea the Brontosaurus (Sludge) existed was debated, then deemed to be wrong and never to have existed, then deemed to be a sub-genus of a different dinosaur all along and restored. Also a fair number of dinosaurs now are believed to have had feathers instead of them all being leather-skined giant lizards, so...yeah. Yeah, except if somehow The Creators were supposedly behind everything up to this point, you're saying they paved the way for humans to eventually come into being...only for The Fallen to later try killing all humanity - twice over the course of tens of thousands of years - only for Sentinel to come around and unwittingly try to destroy humanity by enslaving it (since Cybertron not having basic things like Oxygen didn't seem to occur to him as a glaring problem), and THEN they let Lockdown come down and offer that stupid Seed which inevitably would have kicked off the same plot that was the original Dreamwave G1 Vol.1 comic story more or less and it is without question that humanity sort of obliviously letting the alien robots goad them on to their own Darwin Award caliber self-extinction will factor almost entirely into the plot of the next TF film. The Creators, whatever those lazy placeholder-named excuses for plot driving enemies ultimately are trying to do, don't seem to really care about humans if they keep letting their own creations try to destroy it countless times for extremely petty and idiotic motives that incidentally have screwed over the Cybertronians LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE TIME. Not the point. It doesn't matter if there are fossils before and after, the sheer number of things FROM that period that got zapped with the laser mean that even just ONE FOSSIL should have escaped - given there was that one in the Arctic - and people would have noticed that a piece of extinct lizard skeleton was in fact not made of bone but an alien metal. Orci and Kurtzman weren't involved with AoE. Or DOTM. So you're saying that the story doesn't matter in the end? Thereby making this entire discussion pointless in trying to make sense of it all when you just admitted that actual logical sense isn't entirely present when 'rule of cool' takes priority? Funny, because I do recall learning that sound is in fact specific vibrations of waves moving from the thing emitting the noise. If you can't hear anything in space, thereby waves do not exist in the vacuum of space, then how do satellites work? Already addressed this. Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment. Also, not to worried about the comparison - given it implies one of them dies anyway and killing me only ultimately makes me come back stronger and curbstomp them with the corpse of an old guy strapped to my back.
They seem to be ignoring some of the stupid parts of TF07, which is fine with me, I always thought it was weird that all of the modern age was based on tech was based on Megatron. Still, they did know about Transformium for a while, how long is unknown but Joyce says that they didn't know of any uses for it until the Transformers started showing up. The cold weakness is kind of being ignored also, I'm not sure why you are bringing it up, it's not really relevant. How many wars were fought in the extreme polar regions? They were keeping Megatron on ice the whole time, and Bumblebee basically just surrendered.
It it, though? What is advanced to us today could be bog-standard primitive by Cybertronian standards. Plus they did have over 100 years to study Megatron and given how far technology has advanced from the 1980s to today - a period of barely three decades - that exponential rate of progress stemming from examining Megatron's bits would make sense. Clearly this is a universe where T2: Judgement Day does not exist. But they really needed the Cybertronians to reveal themsleves...just to make half-rate copies of them? Transformium as a substance that can change its shape almost fluidly on command into any complex mechanism in complete disregard for the problems of mass shifting would have innumerable uses. Off the top of my head I can think of using it as a kind of partial body brace for paraplegics ala G1 Circuit Breaker - a sort of fluid exoskeleton suit that through brain wave reading technology (seriously, Japan made a cat ear headband that uses this shit to make the ears move, that's how cheap that kind of stuff is these days) can artificially allow a person to control their own body as if they had muscle control in the first place. Or for massive humanitarian aid uses, a large mass of transformium can be transported in liquid form and then deployed on site to set up a forward command center, response vehicles, or even temporary housing for those who have no home to return to in the wake of the disaster. Or disaster prevention by becoming a variable defense system to protect below-water levies or nuclear power plants by shifting its shape in response to the mass of water hitting it to maximize its ability to minimize the damage caused by massive tides. Hell, it would be invaluable in rapid prototype refinement even sticking to just having it turn into cars. Upload a car design in full so it becomes that car, then subject it to a crash test. Unsatisfactory results? Techs can modify the design right then and there, re-upload the design with the new modifications, and reset the test with the SAME car, saving at minimum weeks of having to redesign the car, make another full body prototype, ship it to the testing center, just to repeat the process ad nauseum. Like, my God the things even the Mythbusters could have done with it for science. And other things. Like finally strapping a legit JATO unit to a car and launching it simply to finish what they started without having to worry about cleaning up the inevitable multi-mile radius debris field the experiment would cause because it would just reform into a single mass upon command. It is literally a substance with unlimited uses...and those idiots couldn't think of doing anything more than weaponizing that crap by making cheap knock-offs resembling aliens that the world was not fond of in the first place? All of the wars that involved somebody trying to invade Russia. Additionally, S7 had cyro guns - which is how they captured BB - so the technology to shoot liquid nitrogen type stuff to neutralize a transformer already exists. And while the stream had to be continuous, given how quickly Megatron woke up when his freezer crib was deactivated, you gotta wonder how the hell they got him from the Arctic to the middle of a desert without him going apeshit on them along the way - and that was in the 1930s because they were building the Hoover Dam so they hadn't even done the reverse engineering crap yet.
Yes, transfomium doesn't just switch from one thing to another, you have to program it to do that. People had to realize such an ability was possible before they could take step to make it a reality. Siberian tundra is not the same as the North pole. Bumblebee didn't fight back, like I said, he basically surrendered.
The same way the vaccines did? Edward Jenner created one of the first vaccines in XVIII century basing it on action-reaction studies. Louis Pasteur in XIX century speculated that perhaps there is something too small to see with microscope that causes diseases. By the end of XIX century many scientist were certain that there exists a small agent that is responsible for infections. The first image of virus was obtained in 1931 by Ernst Ruska and Max Knoll (XX century). How did Edward Jenner and Louis Pasteur managed to create a working vaccine centuries before people knew what a virus is and how it functions? Alfred Nobel created blasting gelatin at 2 A.M. simply by going with the notion of what happens if I combine nitroglycerin with collodion. And let's not mention Penicillin. The idea that scientists know exactly what are they doing and how everything works beforehand is preposterous! We would not have any discoveries if that was the case, because everything would be already discovered. Substitutes! To run a heat engine you can use steam or fossil fuels. To broadcast television signal you can use analog or digital transmission. There are more ways to skin a cat or so they say When they reverse-engineered Megatron what mattered was the mechanics. To transmit data from point A to B you can use optical fiber or copper wires. Using optical fibers you'll get the data faster, but using copper wires the data will still reach you. What Megatron was packing was probably the optimal material to use (see: silicon to germanium in electronic circuits you brought up) and when the humans didn't have the optimal material (or means to effectively harvest it) they used a working substitute. Besides it was the case of having a cake and eating it: if they harvested Megatron how would they reverse-engineer him (that's probably what Bumblebee was for )? In AOE Joshua says that they simply did not connect the dots that the material they were harvesting was the thing Transformers were build from (I mean who would? It's like trying to connect the constitution of fossil fuels to the makeup of the next aliens we meet). Only after acquiring Decepticon/Autobot bodies after Chicago battle they noticed the similarity. And the hunt began! Everyone knows that technology does not work well in extreme cold. That's why arctic researchers go everywhere on foot, whoever heard about such things as snow scooters. Sound waves are a form of mechanical waves that are a result of vibration of particles in a medium (sound on Earth carries by vibration of air particles). Cosmic space is a void, which means that there are no particles to do the carrying, therefore no sound. Satellites communicate by using electromagnetic waves (that are a form of radiation like light, gamma rays, microwaves) which do not need a medium to transmit because they are caused by vibrations of electrical and magnetic fields. That's why you can't hear people shouting in space, but you can see them. BTW, did you made that connection because Soundwave is a communication specialist and transforms into a satellite?
Have you seen 'The Imitation Game'? Tanks had trouble going through it. You think that dumb as hell Pagini that Stinger turned into is going to be able to acomplish what a heavy tank-treaded vehicle couldn't? Because that's another flaw with Transformium - the actual point of transformation is completely useless. If they actually cared about speed then just make a billion predator drones. Yes, because that's totally why when he was unfrozen, he started pointing his gun at everyone holding a freeze ray thingamabob. And CKPRIME literally said I was actually right in that they knew about transformium before the film. So, what exactly are you trying to prove when the film itself says otherwise? You can't be serious. You can't run an internal combustion engine on steam! Nobody uses analog anymore. Congrats, you just explained to CKPRIME how Megatron could have been reverse engineered in the first place. Boy, KSI sure seemed interested in building a lot of those and not moronically obvious one-off super car prototypes or anything. By that logic we shouldn't have heard any sound when they were on the moon in DOTM. No. I mentioned satellites because the entire point of Sputnik I was to establish an orbiting probe with a repeating signal that could be heard on Earth.
No. How is that a flaw? The point of transformium is you can use it to transform one thing into another. You could have a predator drone transform into a robot. So what? He did the same thing to the NEST guards that were screwing around with Sam in DoTM. Yes, they knew it existed but they didn't know what applications to use it. They certainly didn't dig it up and immediately call it transformium. What are you talking about? Sound does not travel through a vacuum.
^ OMFG, lol. On and on it goes! Ugh. Annnyway, jumping back a bit for a moment... Most of this tedious multiquote post has already been addressed quite well in the posts above this one so I'll just skip straight to dealing with a few other points buried within it. Firstly, I contradicted nothing I said. However, I invite you to clarify that claim if you can. And the point of tying Cybertronian history to Earth's should be clear to everyone. It engages the audience and expands upon the lore while strengthening ties between the species of both worlds. And the extinction of the dinosaurs IS related to the plot. The timeline of the Creators harvesting Transformium from the Earth that long ago lays the groundwork for the existence of the Dinobots while simultaneously explaining their mythical, "legendary" status amongst more modern Cybertronians and linking the threat of Galvatron and the Creators to a well-known mass extinction on Earth. We immediately and intuitively understand the extreme, extinction level event danger they pose with a minimum of exposition required. No matter what others told you, the film in no way suggests that the Dinobots are "walking dino-bones made of Transformium." They are clearly fully-formed figures rather than simple skeletons. We don't really know a lot more than that about them or their alt. modes just yet. And you're talking about Strafe, not Swoop. It's an easy mistake to make though, no biggie. Personally, I think it's a great design and that alone justifies his two-headedness (which in turn explains the name-change a bit too, considering the two-pronged front-end of the G1 Autobot jet named Strafe before him). But as I'm sure you've already seen, two-headed animals of all kind are born all the time in actual reality. Given the overwhelming length of the reign of dinosaurs, it stands to reason it happened countless times with them as well and we just haven't found any fossil evidence of it yet. Plus, Strafe originates from alien technology and experimentation anyway so there's always that, too. You obviously misunderstood my point about the Creators rendering dinosaurs extinct having paved the way for us. I very clearly and purposely stated that they did so INADVERTENTLY. And clearly not all of the Transformium was harvested by the Creators, since that's an obvious plot point stated plainly within the film itself. Darcy's dialogue to Joshua even demonstrates the historical nature of the Transformium-corpses find (not fossils, btw). They'd already discovered the strata of Earth at which the rare bits of left-behind Transformium seemed to be grouped, but since the vast majority of the Transformium had already been harvested by the Creators there simply wasn't much of it left to find, let alone complete, massive bodies worth of it. Which is why things really picked up for KSI after the deal with Cemetary Wind and the resultant influx of Cybertronian bodies to study and melt down, as well as their primary motivation for wanting their own Seed with which to make more. I never said that Orci & Kurtzman wrote anything more than they did, I was making the point that Kruger was working under the same mandates from the same people as they were. Nor did I say that "the story doesn't matter in the end." A major part of these stories is their fantastical imagery, wild concepts, amazing spectacle, and over-the-top setpieces. Most of which it is the writer's job to work backwards from to forge the story within those parameters, something all three writers have discussed repeatedly. That in no way implies that nothing makes any sense or that Kruger did his job poorly with no attention paid to logic, it just means that, yeah...the Rule of Cool is definitely a consideration and at a certain point a Transformers movie will obviously require some degree of suspension of disbelief from its audience. Which is the point Kruger was ACTUALLY making, rather than the overblown and misconstrued strawman argument it's constantly misused as instead. Okay...now you're just showing off, lol. Keep it up! Li'l Dino-Guy at the beginning (okay, okay, the Psittacosaurus) really was beautifully realized and looked phenomenal. Totally agreed! And blending together species of dinosaur which never coexisted is another great example of the Rule of Cool, btw. Who cares if the movie is accurate in that respect or if it isn't? It's a Transformers movie, not a science center documentary. As you said, it looked great and allowed for a haunting scene. Yet, as you eloquently illustrated with your dinonerdgasm up there, the filmmakers still went WAY out of their way to maintain the realism and integrity of the scene within those relatively far-fetched parameters. Anyone asking for or expecting more than that from movies like these is just barking up the wrong tree and needs to check their privilege at the door. Thanks again for all that, btw! Very interesting. Oh, and I'd started my earlier reply last night before getting distracted for a few hours midway through and never refreshed the page when I got back to it. Otherwise I would've seen you guys already had everything pretty much covered! Would've saved me a lot of time but it was still cool to see how similar our responses were anyway. Nice work! Always a pleasure. \m/
Well said, and I want to say something more about the Dinobots. I actually like the idea that initially not much is known about the Dinobots. To the Autobots they are these beasts of legend that they don't know much about. They are what dinosaurs are to humans. When dinosaur fossils were first discovered in ancient times they were thought to be dragons, griffins, or other monsters. Even when first described scientically they were most all depicted as elephantine reptiles and then obsolete, tail-dragging dunces before the more modern view of them being adaptable, active, bird-like animals appeared. However, even in the present day so much is not known about Mesozoic dinosaurs. They are still very mysterious in most ways and always will be. I like that the Dinobots are similarly mysterious to the Autobots. Hey, I have been into dinosaurs my whole life and have spent countless hours studying them, so I kind of can't help it! And yeah, I definitely don't have any problem with Psittacosaurus and heterodontosaurids showing up in the Late Cretaceous in a work of fiction. In fact, it had a very Dinobot Island feel to it, so it's actually right in keeping with the history of the brand. Also, they were much more realistic in terms of appearance than the vast majority of dinosaurs in Jurassic World, and that movie focused much more on dinosaurs, so it was a major win in my book! And much thanks! It's always a pleasure!
No, you can't run internal combustion engine on steam, but you can run external combustion engine on steam. Both types (internal and external) are heat engines (which is what I did say and looks like you purposefully omitted) that work on principle of converting thermal energy into mechanical energy. The purpose of an engine is to do work. The point is you can achieve a task using different means; in this case either using an external or internal combustion engine to do your work. I don't know, optical fibers seems all the rave now and they are analog transmission. Multi sector business practices. Why put all your eggs into one basket when you can sell to both military and regular customers. You sell sports cars to general audience and specialized equipment to military and research facilities. Or were you thinking about sending a Paganini to arctic circle to prove your point? It's like sending a smart phone diving, proves it's not waterproof, but it isn't supposed to be used this way. Definitely, but as you can see yourself you can't really expect general audience to know the basics. Sputnik I operated on radio waves (do not confuse with acoustic waves that you can hear), so my point still stands.
So much contradiction going on in here. Sometimes I wonder if you folks are even seeing the same film. And I'm sure you'll reply to this in turn by saying you think the same thing about me. Maybe that's why every time I've asked you to describe what you consider the worst possible scenario Transformers film, it routinely is a question dodged, averted, or otherwise avoided being answered. As if you can't even conceive of a Transformers branded film being shit in any conceivable way, that a Transformers film can do no wrong and anybody who does not accept that concept is somehow wrong and deserving of being shouted down.
Yeah, no. I call bullshit on your entire post. You are projecting your own deflection on to us. The lack of self awareness is ridiculous. You have never once addressed your question to me, not to mention it's another one of your irrelevances and it's completely pointless.
I'll be honest, I don't know what any of you are talking about anymore! The only thing I've learned in all this is the names of some little Dinosaurs care of Galvatross! The rest just gives me a panic attack as I try to unravel everyone's points and counter points! Anyway, well done everyone, let's call it a draw?
