As further evidence for my first post regarding AOE's theme, I'd say even the main string-puller in the film, Megatron, shows that attempts at absolute control fail absolutely.

Megatron survived as a head. He gave the humans the scientific know-how to build Transformers. He altered the appearance of his brand new body. He manipulated them to go after the Seed. He feigned being a drone. His fight with Optimus resulted in Prime being captured, which for Megatron is something that needed to happen in order for the Seed deal to go down. He almost, almost succeeds in Hong Kong, but even Megatron did not account for the possibility that Prime would bring with him four gigantic, Cybertronian warriors, one of which breathes fire.

Megatron came very, very close to controlling the fate of humanity after guiding his own rebirth, but even the mighty Galvatron failed in the quest for absolute control.

Extrapolating this theme into the future, my best guess for Galvatron as a character is that Galvatron may succeed briefly at some point in conquering Earth, enslaving some Autobots, or maybe get new allies. However, either by some foil by the Autobots or by Galvatron having a new outlook and realization, his hold over Earth and the Autobots doesn't last.

I also think this theme will be further explored through the characters of the Creators and their allies and minions.

Thanks! I really like what you have to say in the last paragraph.

 

I think we could ask if there wasn't even earlier manipulation of the humans by Megatron even when he was kept frozen by the humans.

When Megatron first arrives on Earth it would have been a very difficult place for a Transformer to hide. Even when he is found in the ice it's a steam age with mostly just steam powered ships or trains as an alt mode choice. But by the time the Autobots and the other Decepticons arrive on Earth machines are everywhere and common place. An ideal world for someone to be a robot in disguise.

So was it just dumb luck that humans went hey go crazy for technology or did Megatron play a frozen hand in the temptation of making a world full of machines? I'm leaning towards manipulation because while the humans seemed willing to take Bumblebee apart Megatron was left whole.

 

Wow I never thought about that!
Also I wanted to say that the theme of controlling everyone and everything was even from TF1 and I interpret this slightly differently. No one can decide the fate of other innocent sentient beings (like Megatron, the Fallen, Sentinel, Attinger)! You may be even a creator of this life (as KSI and Creators+Lockdown), but you also can't, as a parent can't decide the fate of his children.

 

I want the Deadpool theme.

It'd work out fine.

 

I don't think you're talking about the same theme the thread is talking about....

 

Oh, it's that what's going on. I wasn't paying attention appearently.

 

Well, let's be frank, in TF07 they say they have based literally EVERYTHING off of Megatron and the Cube, so I'd definitely say Megatron was manipulating them in his frozen slumber.

 

Here's another theme:

The dehumanisation of the humans and the humanisation of the autobots and machines in general.
With each movie the autobots start to sound, act and look more like humans. It comes to full circle in AOE with Ratchet being hunted down. You could actually feel how scared and confused he was. Also robot beards and robot samurai, but that's more of an aesthatic point.

With each the movie starting from ROTF the humans start to find ways to kill the decepticons. They became more efficient at it and also start to become more and more arrogant about it. By AOE we can see how far the humans have become killing machines themselves, having little to no emotion and mercy at all. Besides I always thought Megan Fox was acting a bit robotic from the start.

 

Wow I definitely see Megatron and Galvatron in a whole new light now. I have never considered secret motives and only kept my eye out for battle scenes which led me to often complaining "Megatron barely does anything in these films." But I never thought about him essentially being what I like to call "The Card Dealer", laying out his cards then carefully playing them one by one and when one plan fails, he simply lays out a new set of cards to start a new. Got to admit, that's really neat and seems to follow the "More than Meets the Eye" theme since that was apparently the case for me.

 

I can see all of that, especially Lockdown, and now that you've put it this way, I kind of have a bit of empathy for Lockdown.

Not only was he a great and imposing villain who was cut down too soon and not fleshed out enough (and he deserved more), but his motivations and actions were quite telling.

He could've killed humanity with a few well placed grenades. The seed was capable of taking the entirety of Hong Kong in seconds, yet he didn't use it. He could've used several (I'm sure he had an arsenal of them at his disposal) and yet he showed restraint in the face of incredible anger (his own) and insurmountable odds.

Far more patient creature than we gave him credit for.

On top of that, he had Attinger running his bloviated mouth with insipid demands and keeping himself in check even with that going on.

Then, you add in the fact that gods (GODS, mind you!) asked him to do their job for them. Creators that had the power to create life, creators that had the power to shape entire worlds...sending one guy with a crew of idiots at his disposal to go chase down not only a bunch of seemingly self righteous knights, but odd creatures they spawned, plus the entire remnants of the race of beings that the knights come from, who are running slipshod all over the universe.

It's no wonder he was so pissy, so worn out and wanted Prime's head as a trophy.

I hadn't really caught that aspect before, so thank you for that. Makes me rethink some things.

I see what you're trying to say, but honestly, I see it the other way around... The humans have dehumanized the Transformers. You don't have to be human to be humane and as many prior sci fi stories have shown us, you don't even have to be a human being to be human.

Data? As human and flawed as the rest of us, yet he was an Android.

Johnny 5? Might've been intended as a weapon of war, but his heart was bigger than most people's and his kindness nearly cost him his life.

Hardac? Well, Bruce Wayne said it best: "A soul of silicon, but a soul nonetheless."

I'd say Optimus and crew were far more human than we were, all along. (Which plays into the cynical view/aspect/theme.) Optimus was willing to sacrifice himself to save our world, Optimus DID sacrifice their world to save ours, so many Autobots were slaughtered in DOTM and prior to AOE, all because we were inhuman to them.

We used them to train us on how to kill them, we used them and they, like a child, were innocent and full of wonder and lied to and given a brutal enlightenment into the ways of humans.

Ironhide said it best "They're a primitive and violent species" and he was right. We were always the killing machines, we just taught the machines to kill more viciously. The only kill Optimus had on screen was taking Bonecrusher's head after a chase in which the Decepticon had killed a bus full of people. Prior to that scene, and after it until the conclusion of the film, Optimus harmed no one. Not even Megatron.

After that film, in between it and ROTF, we taught Optimus how to become vicious. He climbed up onto Grindor's shoulders and used hooks to pull the 'con's head in two. Prior to that scene, we had never seen Optimus that violent and vicious. Yes, he did kill Scavenger during the chase in China, but that could also be seen somewhat as a mercy killing. Scavenger's injuries were pretty bad and it was clear that he would continue being a threat if given the chance, so it was a necessary kill. Grindor's was just straight up "I'm gonna kill this guy."

We taught Optimus that. We taught it to Bumblebee, too. We strapped him down to a cart and shocked him repeatedly, while freezing him with liquid nitrogen. We tortured him. We imprisoned Megatron and stole from his body, we ripped pieces out of him.

We were always the killing machines, we were always proficient in it. We took the Autobots humanity from them.

As for the prior themes mentioned, I agree with all of them. Especially the cynical ones. Without going into dangerous territory and crossing lines that would cause issues with the staff and/or violate rules, I'll just scratch the surface...

Religion/religious beliefs. It's clearly weaved into the storyline from G1 onwards and I'm glad they didn't ignore it in the movieverse, either. Heck, it could be stated that the knight theme ties into the religious aspect of it as well, a knights templar of the Transformers world.

I think that's one of the key/central themes of the TF movie universe as well.

I'd give examples to satisfy the op's request, but I hope it's understood as to why I cannot give those (board rules and all), but after seeing the films, I'd say it's pretty self explanatory.

I think each film has it's own theme, yes, but I do believe they all tie together in the end. I think they do a pretty good job of painting that universe's picture, even if we miss some of the finer points the first time 'round, along the way.

We need more threads like this. Thought provoking, enlightening and respectable. Good job, Galvatross. *slow clap*

 

Wow. So well put.

The reason I agree with you is that it's abundantly clear the Autobots have had to adapt to survive. Sure, they were in wars for centuries were they spilled Energon, used up ammunition, and locked blades and shields.

However, that was when they were on familiar turf, and there were millions or billions of them around. Now they are a critically endangered species. In addition to fighting the remaining Decepticons, they have dealt with ungrateful humans resisting them at every turn. They have dealt with their former leader betraying them. They have had a skilled, feared Transformer bounty hunter and his human allies hunt them down. Then the humans melt down their remains to build their own Transformers all while being secretly manipulated by Megatron.

Prime still cares about others. He still believes in freedom. He's just had to adapt his methods just to survive in a violent universe.

Thank you! I appreciate it. I'm really glad you and others like this thread.

 

CHAOS/CONTROL
For the first two films (TF1, ROTF), the Decepticons unleash chaos on the world and the Autobots represent order in that they’re trying to preserve the human race/civilization.

In the next two films (DOTM, AOE), this gets flipped over. The bad guys (Decepticons and human villains, both together and separate) attempt to establish control and order so that nobody can move against them, and the Autobots represent the unexpected element of chaos that throws their plans off course.


MADNESS
This is exclusive to DOTM: its three villains act in an unreasonable and unbalanced manner.

Sentinel Prime is insane to think that his world can be saved and that humanity can be enslaved to rebuild it.

Dylan is insane to think siding with an army of killers will save him. He walks a line of despair, but still him thinking he had a chance can be thought of as him not being reasonable.

And Megatron was actually fairly passively insane; he doesn’t do much throughout the film. Then when Carly provokes him, he returns to sanity... sort of. He’s always been an egomaniac, and this boomerangs on him when he thinks Optimus will let him live.

 

I was thinking this last week about another theme in the fourth film. This theme is explicitly said by Cade when he tells Prime, "You need to look at all the junk and see the treasure."

Cade has lots of junk around his barn, but he's able to use it to turn into sometimes useful gadgets. Cade also may be even be a little grumpy and hostile at times, but he has a good heart. He is willing to work hard to provide for his daughter, and he refuses to sell out Prime and the Autobots.

Most of the Autobots are open misanthropes and more violent than the average Transformers protagonists. They are undoubtedly flawed, but they are not bad in their sparks. They understandably don't trust humans. Hound especially doesn't like humans at all initially and openly threatens them. However, through his interactions with the Yeagers he starts to see the good in them as time goes on. It starts with him not shooting the Yaegers and Joshua when Prime tells him not to. Then on the Knightship he threatens Crosshairs after the paratrooper considers abandoning Prime and Tessa. He tells Crosshairs in a blunt manner that they are rescuing both their leader and the teenager. Finally, in Hong Kong he encourages Cade as they are fighting Galvatron's kSI Decepticon's. Hound may not trust humanity as a whole, but he starts to see good in some of them at least. Additionally, while Hound is rough around the edges, he is very loyal. The other Autobots also have good qualities despite their open hostilities.

Joshua is another example of this theme. Joshua is arrogant and doesn't care that Autobots are being killed to harvest Transformium. However, once he realizes that he has been played by Galvatron and that his creations pose a threat to mankind he tries to stop it. He severs his ties with Attinger and openly says that what Cemetery Wind did was wrong. Sure, he's still not the bravest of humans, but like Cade and the Autobots there is plenty of good (treasure) in him.

 

what a great thread..if you look past the gloss there's great stories to be had here...this past week i watched all 4 of the films 4 days in a row (1 day 1 film) & i gotta admit..they were a great ride..each film feels different yet connected..only gripe is film 3 shoulda been told the way it was originally supposed to..woulda made the series feel more complete

 

AoE is definitely a story of redemption.

 

And honor.

 

Thought I would revive this thread with one particular theme that pops up in all five films: necessary evil. With the world(s) at stake, people will either resort to doing terrible deeds, or pick the lesser of two evils.


The first film - Bumblebee was captured by Sector Seven. However, Sam cleared things up.

ROTF - When the Fallen made his demand for Sam, Galloway shut down NEST and launched a manhunt to locate Sam and hand him over to the Decepticons. He had previously asked that the Autobots leave Earth so that the Decepticons follow them and fight them away from Earth.

Megatron also brought up killing Sam, asking whether the future of the Transformers was worth one human life.


DOTM - This works on two fronts, Cybertron and Earth.

For Cybertron, Sentinel Prime was willing to enslave humanity to have a workforce to rebuild his home. For Earth, the US voted to have the Autobots exiled, so that the Decepticons would just take their resources from Earth and leave. Dylan felt that enslavement was better than being exterminated.

But the Chicago massacre ensued after the exile happened, and even Dylan realized he'd only sold out the planet and put himself in a place there was no getting out from.


AOE - Harold Attinger established Cemetary Wind to hunt down Autobots. But even if he was sincere about protecting the Earth, he was too greedy and oppurtunisitc about it; his actions were only really to serve his own interests.


TLK - We have Optimus acting as the villain, and Lennox asking for Megatron's alliance. This film will be fairly interesting to explore this theme.

 

I posted this somewhere but I think this thread is a good place for it, this will be lengthy sorry. Dark of the moon is all about doing things for others as opposed to yourself. In Dark many characters are motivated by selfish reasons that they claim are for others but are only for themselves. Sam longs to reclaim the glory he lost and seeks to find purpose neglecting those he loves in the process. Megatron is also a shadow of his former self and seeks to reclaim his glory as well.

Optimus is motivated by the personal guilt he feels for failing Sentinel not the actual threat of the decepticons. Simmons is motivated by his own greed and need for glory seeing the return of the decepticons as an opportunity to return to his original sector seven agent self. Sentinel seeks to restore his home but is doing it to return to his former status as is hinted yet claims it's for others. Dylan at times suggests that siding with the decepticons is the only way for humanity to survive but clearly shows he is only interested in his own self preservation.

All the heroes and villains are motivated by their own selfish needs and claim it's for others (a little difficult to see with Optimus) this selfishness ends up costing them dearly. Sam's selfish need for gratification puts Carly in great danger while Simmons selfishness costs him his legs. Optimus's selfish need to make up for his failure gets a lot of innocent people killed. These are not the heroes who risked their lives (and in Sam and Optimus's case gave them) to save the world in Revenge of the Fallen. Like Dylan, Megatron and Sentinel they have lost sight of why they fought in the first place however unlike our villains our heroes prove they are still those people in the end that they can make the hard choices.

Our villains meanwhile prove they are selfish, Dylan doesn't join the Autobots when the tides turn he keeps fighting with the cons because he knows he will have to answer for his crimes proving he was just acting for his own preservation. Megatron sits on the sidelines and doesn't fight until his ego is threatened even risking his home for his ego proving that despite his desire to save his home he was just acting for himself. Sentinel becomes increasingly delusional with his god complex continuing to proclaim himself a god and talks about how the needs of the many outweigh the few yet this is counteracting ultimately proving that Sentinel is acting for himself not others.

There is a brief secondary theme which links to our three heroes and two of our villains a desire to return to the past rather than looking to the future. It's pretty easy how this applies to Sam and Simmons as they are motivated by a need to reclaim their past glory. Megatron is clearly driven by a desire to return to his former glory as well and the moment he gives into his ego and tries he dies. This adds a bit of brilliance to his quick demise he tried to be movie one Megatron again but he wasn't that person he wasn't as powerful nor was he capable for battle so reality ensues and Optimus kills him instantly.

He tried to return to the past and died because of it. Sentinel cannot move beyond Cybertron and accept a new home and betrays his friends and students to return to that era ultimately costing Cybertron it's very existence because Sentinel couldn't move forward. Optimus wants to go back to the days Sentinel lead as offering the matrix shows but those days are gone Sentinel isn't who he remembered him as so he had to leave that hope behind and stop him.

Sam, Optimus and Simmons are able to leave the past behind and move towards the future while Megatron and Sentinel can't and so no longer have one. That's just some of the central ideas I noticed drove Dark of the moon. Great thread topic perhaps one of the only ones where my long comments actually make sense lol.

 

As someone pointed out how humans are become better at killing TFs I'd like to see the cons and or bots in a sense evolve and become even stronger and maybe even bigger