It was a figure of speech I don't like where we are I don't like what people have embraced but I would be wrong to say I didn't play a part in it. Good job on your choice it's better to not support something you're against. But it's still our fault to an extent, maybe not now but at some point.

Also I stand by my first question name a good character arc from G1's first two seasons, an in depth arc.

 

lol sorry I edited my original post with that answer.

The cartoons didn't have character arcs. They did, however, have episodes starring a particular character which gave the character depth. Fire in the Sky for Skyfire. Auto Berserk for Red Alert. The Master Builders for Grapple. The Golden Lagoon for Beachcomber. The Secret of Omega Supreme for Omega Supreme. I could go on. The list is actually quite extensive...

 

I really love a lot of those character-focused G1 episodes. Yeah, they're made to sell toys, but that's Transformers fiction from its beginning. Beachcomber is one of my favorite Transformers characters of all time and one of the most underused Autobots ever.

Having said that, I also think some of the Movie Transformers are much better characters than critics of the films make them out to be. Sentinel was great in DOTM. I thought every robot in AOE with a speaking role was either an extremely interesting character or played a great role in the story or both. Wheelie and Jetfire are underrated.

 

Shirt 1: I'll accept that, that's good enough I could name off traits and personalities of movie characters as well even some development but that's not the purpose of this thread. Still you answered my question and that's more than I can say for others, you proved your point well enough and I'm just not in the mood to prove my side right now, thanks for actually answering it though.

The only character thing that actually bothers me is that Optimus is not recognized as a good character the idea that no critic brings him up angers me because he is living proof that the movies do have emotion and heart.

 

That's a fair point. I did actually like Sentinel as a character. Jetfire was ok minus the old man fart humor... He was still kind of the same old war hardened veteran as the other Autobots (I know he's a Decepticon but he sides with the Autobots). Wheelie? Not even sure which one he was  

edit: Oh wow...I just looked up Wheelie. See, that's kind of what I mean...I know that character, but I don't think he was ever named in the movie... Maybe I just missed it?

I appreciate the respectful debate as well.  

Optimus I'll grant you was an interesting character in the movies. Peter Cullen always is magnificent. Prime is just a little too bloodthirsty for my liking...but I have to admit he is an interesting character.

 

Nothing wrong with not liking the more violent portrayal, as I have said I enjoy this version of Megatron I'm not use to seeing him have to struggle to survive like this and I think that is a unique portrayal of him. Just my perspective of him. I don't think wheelies name was said very much which I admit is a problem you should probably refer to your characters by name more than once.

 

He's right! The first one is still the best in my opinion, but overall they've been so see-saw-ish. It seems like every time they improve one thing with the TF films, something else goes sour. Honestly, my favorite thing from the Bay films are the toys and some of the video games. I enjoy those far more than the actual films. Looking back, my favorite parts of the Bay films are whenever Optimus takes someone's face because it's always very brutal yet awesome.

 

As much as I may have my quibbles with the movies, I look at them as dumb, silly entertainment at the end of the way.

My much greater issue is with IDW and how they're influencing the overall brand, but that's another argument for the comics thread.

These movie franchises are just meant to be loud, fun, and stupid, and part of me giggles at how incredibly violent and angry Optimus is.

 

So two steps forward, one step backwards?

 

Hoist goes Hollywood, Sea Change, The girl who loved Powerglide, Changing Gears... The second season had quite a few "spotlight" eps.

 

The difference is that selling stuff was always the entire point of Transformers, and there's no bait-and-switch because we always knew that at some level. It wasn't like that with Star Wars. Star Wars was a rare example where the story exists for its own sake, and the merch--while always part of the plan--was a secondary consideration, leveraged to fund more story.

Was.

The Force Awakens is still enjoyable, yes. But the soul has sort of gone out of it. It's a formula now instead of a living, breathing story experiment. "Win/win" is not exactly how I'd describe that change in status quo.

 

Poor Mark Hamil, I think his age is finally getting to him.

Seriously though, he's not really wrong about what he's saying.

 

Luke is absolutely correct. He's not saying anything new.

 

Ha ha, I think my defense from now is going to be hey I'm getting old like Mark Hamill.

Since the topic of merchandising came up I find kind of interesting how some movies can move tons of merchandising while other films just fizzle at selling things outside of movie tickets. Except for Revenge of the Fallen and the occasional shelf warmer Transformers moves toys, tee-shirts, baby bottles and whatever else they can slap a Transformers theme on. Star Wars can sell action figures of characters who appear for 10 seconds and no lines. But a film like Avatar ends up with a failed toy line.

 

What's weird is Hasbro can't resurrect GI JOE despite the mad success of Transformers.

Probably could blame military FPS oversaturation for that...

 

Could be going too far into politics territory to ponder why G.I.Joe is harder for them to keep up worldwide (especially in China) the same way how TFs are doing, but... TFs are easier because you can boil it down to simple space robo heroes vs space robo baddies. It's fairly neutral.
It's not like Hasbro did not try at all.

... but of course G.I.Joe movies did not help at all.

 

We saw what happened when Hasbro tried to turn Battleship into a film franchise.

Heh. Anyway, even extra star power with Dwayne Johnson and Bruce Willis couldn't save GI Joe from becoming a stillborn franchise at the moment. They might try something again, but considering the modern situation with terrorism? A movie about said subject is gonna be a somewhat hard sell.

 

I wonder whether Action Force would have any better shot at the international market. It should be pretty easy to include G.I. Joe as the American branch of an international Action Force without redefining either brand. I've heard that one of the early scripts called for Action Man to be included as a character, so a similar thought must've crossed someone's mind.

 

I think Hasbro should kitbash Action Force with Earth Defense Command (or better, replace EDC with AF since not that many people cares about the EDC anyway) and do a shared universe with TFs, throw in some other aliens for variety of mooks to kill and turn Cobra and Cobra-la into villains trying to take over the world with stolen alien technology.

I'm pretty good at fanwanking at times...