Hear me out: In his latest interview about the Bengahzi movie, Bay seem enthusiastic about the writers room and what kinda of idea they cooked up. The Bay we all are familiar with, his arrogance doesn't looked that way. Just a hunch I got. I think the writings ruined a lot since ROTF and to AOE. You can say whatever you want about Orzi\Kurztman, but they made the cons a force to be reckon. Even though they had little to none charactization, but they were a menacing force. I hope Bay brings a little of the good parts of the first movie in his last TF movie perhaps?

 

Well, with the new writers on board, I am hopeful for something new and creative.

And I agree that Orci-Kurtzman (TF1, ROTF) did fairly better with the robot characters than Ehren Kruger (DOTM, AOE).

 

No, they absolutely did not. And the phrase is "a force to be reckoned with." Which the Decepticons in TF1 were not. At all.

 

Well They put up a better fight in the earlier movies than in the later ones.

After ROTF, Decepticons became like butter, way too weak to put up any sort of fight.

 

I really can't agree with this statement at all.

 

Writers can write whatever they want.
Directors can and often do change the script.

The final movie is made in the editing room, regardless of the script.

 

I guess technically that statement is true if you factor in that Brawl is the only one that took a lot of effort to bring down.

EDIT: the big guy from ROTF did too. The one in China.

My point is that if I'm ranking the movies based on how much of a threat the Decepticons were, it would go

DOTM
AOE
ROTF
TF1

Meaning, in the one movie that Orci/Kurtzman did on their own, the Decepticons were the least dangerous. They might have been "tougher", but they weren't as threatening.

 

I agree the TF 1 Cons are the least threatening, and in my opinion they are not really any tougher than the later ones, and their portrayal is often inconsistent. Blackout can take out a base, but he then gets killed by humans in the climax. Megatron can beat up Prime but gets killed by Sam (granted Sam had the Cube, but still). Not to mention how Megatron is the only Transformer in all four films who conveniently crashes to Earth because his telemetry gets screwed up by the Earth's magnetic field, which doesn't make him seem all that competent. Bonecrusher dies in his first battle scene. Barricade gets beat by Bumblebee and disappears inexplicably before Mission City. Now Brawl and Scorponok are consistently tough, and TF 2007 doesn't have any drones or protoforms, but the named Decepticons in TF 2007 are not any tougher than the named Cons/bad Transformers in the sequels.

In my opinion Lockdown, Sentinel Prime, and Galvatron are all just as tough and certainly more consistent and competent than the 2007 Decepticons. They're also considerably more interesting.

I don't dislike the 2007 film. It has parts I like, but it definitely is not an example for how future Transformers films should be, nor is it a model for how Decepticons should be portrayed if you ask me.

 

It kind of says something that the only time the Decepticons are ever actually, truly dangerous...is the Universal Studios theme park ride.

 

Can you please stop reminding me my local Universal Studios opted for Harry Potter World over Transformers the Ride!

 

What? I thought every Universal had Transformers the Ride now. Hollywood and Florida both have it.

 

Not good. .

 

And Singapore! But not Osaka!  

 

Ohhhh...dude that stinks. Especially since, if I was being honest, the movie Ride has been the best thing out of the franchise (film wise) in recent years.

 

Not to mention the studio can push script changes, the producers can push script changes, if an actor has enough clout they can push changes. Plus with having to translate from the written word to film there are times when something sounded really really good on paper to not work very well on film.

People seem to put way too much faith in a script when there are so many elements to making a movie.

 

Eh, I think TF1 did a good job with what limited screen time it could afford for the 'Bots. ROTF on the other hand, made all the useful Autobots bland and gave all the characterization to the comic relief. However, DOTM didn't even have that but I mostly blame it on Bay changing the ending. AOE did a good job characterizing the Autobots but their likability is questionable. So, I honestly can't say whether Orci/Kurtzman or Kruger is better.

I completely disagree with everything that you say here. Sure, Megatron being killed by Sam is a bit embarrassing but as even you said, it took a magical device with the power to give life to an entire world to kill him. I don't think that's inconsistent with how powerful he was up until then.

Bonecrusher dies in his first fight but at least he managed to stay alive against Optimus Prime for a minute. Compare this to Sideways running away until Swipe kills him or Grindor getting killed despite having Meg and Scream's help or that whole army of 'Cons who Optimus kills in a matter of seconds in DOTM. Heck, Demolisher was a giant and he barely does any better than Bonecrusher.

Most of Barricade's fight happens off screen (sadly) but it at least starts with Barricade throwing Bee around. That's more than Rampage or Soundwave did against Bee. In ROTF and DOTM, nobody are able to even hurt Bee. Heck, just before the forest fight, Starscream gets in a brief firefight with Bee and even he couldn't hurt him. Compare that to TF1 where Scream's missiles take Bee's legs right off.

Yes, Lockdown, Sentinel and Galvatron are pretty good but they're only three characters. Heck, Sentinel comes from a film with countless Decepticon characters who are all varying degrees of useless.

You mean the one that starts with Ravage getting snapped in half? That is literally the very first thing that happens. The rest of the ride is just Decepticons ineptly chasing you until the carbot you're riding kills Megatron. I know this because I've watched it on YouTube. I would never pay to see crap like that.

 

The ride in real life is honestly one of the coolest things I have ever ridden. So don't base your judgement on a youtube video, actually go on it and you might be pretty surprised.

 

Not really interested in feeling like I'm really there as my favorite characters all die.

 

Actually, I'm pretty certain Ravage, maybe Bonecrusher (he gets shot a couple times in the head but he totally could survive that given Prime had to chop his head off to kill him back in the fist film), and Megatron are the only ones who die - Grindor loses his arm thanks to the subway and Devestator's got a nice big hole in the back of his head (which he easily survives getting back in ROTF), but Sideways and Starscream aren't truly worse for wear.

That's at least four, maybe five Decepticons still alive by the end of the ride. Not counting the 200+ generics offscreen at the end of DOTM, that's more Decepticons alive at the end then any of the films!

 

But here's the thing. All of the films have Decepticons/bad guys that are tough (Brawl, Scorponok, Megatron, Sentinel, Lockdown, Galvatron, even Shockwave), and all have Decepticons that get killed easily (Blackout, Megatron in 2007, Sideways, Devastator, Starscream in DOTM, Protoforms, KSI Decepticons not named Galvatron or Stinger). The first film is no different in this regard. It just has less Decepticons to begin with.

The first movie is the worst in terms of characterization and interaction for the bad Transformers. In the first film they all inhabit the same space, but they hardly interact.

Plus that Barricade-Bumblebee battle is the worst Transformers fight in the films. It is very confusing and makes little sense.

Megatron should be intelligent enough to not crash in the Arctic since every other Transformer in the films always landed exactly where they meant to on Earth, and even if he did a little ice should not stop Megatron; I'm sure he would have ways of melting it anyways. Additionally, there was no reason for him to be anywhere near the Arctic since the Allspark he was pursuing was in the American Southwest. Forget how stupid it is that Megatron imprints the coordinates of the Allspark on Archibald Witwicky's glasses or how Megatron is transported while frozen and posed by the humans decades earlier. The film basically makes him strategically incompetent for the sake of the plot. I'm not saying the plans in the sequels are perfect, but they certainly aren't that bad. Kurtman and Orci's writing is very weak.

Also, while many fans decry Starscream's death by boomstick in DOTM, that really is not any worse than Megatron's 2007 death, and it's certainly better than Blackout getting killed by humans.

If I have a choice between an intellectually competent Megatron and one who is just a tough brute, I'm going to chose the intelligent one regardless of whether he's physically stronger or weaker. Megatron should be powerful, but more importantly he should be manipulative of others.

If you want a Movie Megatron that A) is physically tough and powerful, B) doesn't die, and C) is manipulative, see AOE Galvatron. Also, his KSI drones were not sentient. They should have been easier to kill than sentient Cybertronians.

All of the films have enemy Transformers that are competent, and all have enemy Transformers that are not and are easy to kill. 2007 is no different in that regard in my opinion, and that's what I'm sticking to.