Yeah, probably wasn't the best choice of words now that I think about it. And I wasn't even trying to be mean to the mod either. Hahaha, ahhh I'm screwed.

 

There are moments reading posts where you just have to have that Joker moment of "Why so serious?".

I must win at all cost even though you get absolutely nothing for winning if there was some theoretical way of actually winning.

 

Hm I thought that would work, I'm in no mood to debate with you Autobot burnout so I thought if I insulted you enough you would just ignore me, props to sticking up for yourself but I'm not wasting my time with you. And don't act like you haven't insulted people before, I've pointed it out before I know it's there rather you deny it or not. I just treat you the way you treat us.

I'll make this simple, the only reason we remember any of those characters from the show is because we were kids. We love mindless action and explosions, we didn't care about actual character development. We didn't like Vader because he was interesting we liked him because he was cool, that's the only reason a kid really likes anything, maybe it's changed now but not back in the eighties. G1 had no character development at any point ever, there's a reason the comics were more liked despite not being as well known.

I don't care who you're favorite character was in your childhood it wasn't because they were multi layered or even a fully fleshed out character, it was because they were cool young kids are thinking the same things about the movies, nothing's changed except for the fact that some fans believe because they've been around longer that they're more entitled than others, that since they watched the original or beast Wars which was loved it makes them better fans and smarter than others. You come off like that, I'm not answering your questions because I already did the movies are there, the proof solid.

There's nothing more to say, I'm not getting in another debate with you, I've got better things to do than argue with someone as negative and cynical as you, no offence.

 

Wait, what?

Are you saying that, instead of responding to counter points of your posted arguments, you would rather come off as being incredibly rude and immature, just in the hopes of driving me (and presumably anybody else who disagrees with you) off so you could win arguments by default simply by making sure anybody who challenged them stopped paying attention to you, rather than doing the simple thing and provide more substantial evidence for your viewpoints that don't almost entirely involve trying to tear down other major film franchises in the process?

Uh...I think you're getting characters showing any kind of personality mixed up with character development. Since if even back in the original G1 cartoon, if kids cared more about the action than the characters...then the fact 99% of all characters in the first two seasons of the show, including Optimus and Megatron, die horribly on screen in the first thirty minutes of TFTM, wouldn't have caused any of the backlash that to this day still haunts Hasbro.

But that flies in the face of how Hasbro can keep churning out new versions of the same guys from the mid 1980's - particularly the original 1984 line up - and still make money off of them despite those same characters not having been in any televised media for decades.

That's where I think you're forgetting the reason the franchise's constant reboots of continuity series not being used for the live action films is disastrous. Kids grow up into teenagers, and their priorities change as they get older, meaning they lose interest in things they associate with their younger years like Transformers. Logically, as the old target market ages out, a new crop of younger boys fill their place, needing a new TF series to hook them in such that they can follow a basic storyline linking the episodes, nagging parents to buy them the toys, before those new ten year olds grow into teenagers in the middle of puberty who don't play with toys anymore.

The movies not rebooting 100% and bringing back all the staple key characters who died on both sides, while running for almost a full decade now, is failing to appeal to the newer generation while the older generation may see the films but not buy the toys. Ten year olds in 2007 are turning 16 this year, meaning the generation who grew up alongside the films is already well on their way out, but because the film continuity staunchly will not reboot such that the newer generation only shows up in the middle of a series they never grew up with will not be as attracted to the series.

Uh, you do realize that if they watched the original or BW, this would mean those fans are also much older and as such have higher expectations for the content of a big budget Transformers film, plot wise, as they've been exposed to all kinds of storytelling outside of shows which never truly need to be more than 22 minute toy commercials with a plot, right?

 

Preferably, making the focus of the movie the Transformers. Not the Transformers through the eyes of humans, not how Transformers and humans interact, Transformers. No one goes to a Transformers movie just to see their favorite actor on-screen. They go to see the robots!

This, obviously, is never going to happen, because it's much easier to market a movie like Transformers when you have big actors as the main characters, as opposed to voice actors you never actually see during the duration of the film.

 

People went to see Jaws for the shark, people went to see Aliens for the aliens, but if you have something interesting and cool about the humans then it's pretty darn good even if you didn't go for the humans.

I don't think we need a human free Transformers as much as we need a Transformers movie without human characters being described as the screaming idiot, the T&A girl, or the stereotype.

 

To add onto this, we need a TF film where there's a focus on both Autobots and Decepticons - sure, the Decepticons are the bad guys, but they're almost entirely one-note with just being plain ol' evil and there's no dynamic between any two Decepticons beyond the usual Megatron/Starscream relationship of the former keeping the latter's aims to take control of the Decepticons by force, like they always do.

To take a page from Animated, Lugnut is an excellent example. There is no single Decepticon more dedicated to serving Megatron than ol' bomb-fists and he unintentionally always makes this very loud and clear to the point of annoying every other Decepticon within hearing range of his constant praises of Megatron. Including Megatron.

Furthermore, the fight scenes need to be majorly revised so it's not constantly ovewhelming odds against the Decepticons in everything except numbers. The first film got this right as there were only a handful of Decepticons, but the Autobots struggled against them with the humans help as a result. Then we get ROTF where Decepticons rain down the sky...and if they aren't Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, or the main bad guy of the film, they will be slaughtered by the Autobots wholesale. Same applies for DOTM more or less, and especially AoE where the only Autobots who die are only in the film for that expressed purpose because none of the new ones ever come close in comparison.

 

WARNING "But this isn't animated!!!! APPROACHING

 

Why is it whenever I see folks like you write the words "character development" I always hear it as if you've said the word 'tapeworm' or 'divorce lawyer'? Character development are the little things in the movie that add up to us giving a shit about what happens.

Do me a favour; I want you to watch Aliens and Predator. Specifically pay attention to the scenes on the Sulaco from the Marines walking up in Cryo and dropping to planet side, and Predator basically the first 45 minutes to an hour.

This is the sort of thing I'm after in a Transformers movie at a more consistent level. They do it occasionally but it always feels very disconnected and awkward - one thing that's worth noting in Aliens, the scenes on the Sulaco were filmed last after they'd all spent 6 months filming together.

Vader looking cool helped propel him into popular culture, no denying that but as the movies went on, further snippets of his background as Anakin Skywalker are revealed which fuels interest in Vader as a character. Star Wars was originally designed as a family film which means it was made to work on multiple levels for both kids and adults so kids see Darth Vader, awesome badass space wizard with a laser sword. Adults see the right hand of an evil asshole who later became a tragic fallen hero.

 

what we need is a transformers movie that doesn't rely on a human. in the first movie, sam was integral to the plot, in rotf sam was integral to the plot, in aoe wahlberg was integral to the plot.. i don't like that theme.

i want the movie to hinge on the actions and relationships between the transformers. we've seen human/transformers relationships enough. i want the main arc of the story to be based on a transformer. i'm not saying get rid of the humans.. i'm just saying that i want them to work along side the transformers. not have the main focus be on them. i want more dialogue.. i want BETTER dialogue. even though they spoke more in AOE, what they actually said was absolutely stupid 90% of the time.

also.. i REALLY don't want to see anymore robots disintegrating into little pieces, float around, then form into vehicles.. it's stupid. this is transformers not "disintegrated floating around morphing aliens".

i want the robots to actually have vehicle parts on their robot modes.

i want a different tone. i want either a serious tone (like the force awakens) or a fun tone (like the avengers) not a goofy "hey we want to make a ton of money and lack any substance whatsoever" tone.

i used to enjoy watching the movies.. but with more and more sci fi/fantasy movies coming out, transformers seriously pales in comparison. none of the characters are really all that memorable or all that enjoyable. hell, the most popular robot speaks out of a radio using movie quotes.

lastly.. are people really arguing that these transformers movies are better than or on par with the original star wars movies? lol, that's crazy.