Could the Decepticons have won?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by SteelRazorBlade, Nov 21, 2015.

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  1. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    What did they do in TF1 that was so special?
     
  2. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Taking a break

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    Manage to put up a fight.
     
  3. unicronic

    unicronic Well-Known Member

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    The fights in the movies are like WWE encounters.

    You're pretty sure someone is going to win then some bizarre thing happens that switches the outcome.

    Case in point:

    - Megatron getting killed by a life giving device
    - An old clunky former Decepticon giving renewed power to Optimus Prime
    - Megatron getting trolled by a bad actor
    - Lockdown, galaxy hopping bounty hunter, getting undone by a pick-up truck
     
  4. Jus09

    Jus09 Well-Known Member

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    :p  You sir just made my day. Maybe that's why Ehren Krueger's a bad writer.
     
  5. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    to be fair I thought using the Allspark to kill Megatron was a bit clever.
     
  6. Chopperface

    Chopperface Chadwick Forever

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    If Carly had walked down a different street than the one Megatron was on? Yes. And if Dylan had grabbed the gun back and shot Sam when he beat him in a physical fist fight.
     
  7. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Senior Robotic Citizen

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    It is stated in the movie that the cube is RAW power. Just look at Nuclear energy. It is great for running cities, and generating power. Yet can also demolish entire cities. The allspark destroying Megatron was actually quite clever, and Prime says he will use it to kill himself earlier in the movie if he cannot defeat Megatron so I do not see that as much of a cop out.
    Alright I'll give you that one, ROTF was just bad at a lot of things.
    This one is a stretch, because she is a bad actor doesn't really reflect on the merits of how the scene actually makes sense. Megatron was losing his power throughout the series. And he loses pretty much all together when Sentinel kicks him off the pillar tower. Obviously he was pretty pissed off, and sulky, so having someone easily push him over the edge into fighting mode makes sense.
    He was fighting Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, AND getting shot at by Cade. However you are right, by the time the pick up truck rolls in it all becomes rather silly. In reality though it wasn't the pick up truck that undid Lockdown, it was his pride. He foolishly took on prime 1v1 and wasted time trying to take out Cade because Cade had been an irritation to him throughout the movie.
     
  8. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Here.

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    Kill, destroy, be fucking badass evil shooting robots that manage to hold their own until THE END.
     
  9. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    That's actually true.
     
  10. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Well look at that here we are again hypocrite lane. Plot armor exists in every single franchise if your climax doesn't create near unwinnable odds it's not a proper climax. In every movie the deceptions are moments away from victory only to be beaten by something unexpected plot armor has nothing to do it.

    Despite their efforts they lost Egypt then jetfire gave his life to revitalize Prime. Optimus lost to sentinel and Sam was overpowered by Dylan, the autobots all would've died if not for wheelie and Brains. Megatron listened to Carly because she was right and he knew this so he decided to do something about it. This isn't plot armor this is using Megatron's biggest weakness against him. Lockdown couldn't hit Cade because he was small ever try catching a rabbit or something it's hard as hell being stronger and more powerful is useless if you can't catch your enemy.

    Seriously you're all a bunch of hypocrites watch almost any action movie with a war scene and it's the exact same thing so why don't you go complain about the plot armor of the Avengers, or Batman, superman, the X men, The Connors from terminator or maybe Aang and team Avatar from Avatar the last airbender, after all in theory the fire nation should've won that an entire empire against a group of kids. This does not just apply to transformers so quit acting like it does, stop bashing the transformers movies for doing things every other action franchise does. Just stop with the balant biasm, double standard and outright hypocritical statements and maybe just maybe you'll enjoy them all more!
     
  11. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Taking a break

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    Most stories don't have the heroes facing unwinnable odds for their final battle. The odds are often against them but in most good stories, it's never beyond the realm of possibility that they could win without needing the villains to be idiots.

    For ROTF, I'm gonna agree, there's nothing wrong with Optimus getting a boost from Jetfire. Now, the idea that a small group of tiny Autobots, supported by very limited human firepower, was not totally obliterated by the force of several large, heavily armed Decepticons, two of which could fly, long before Optimus could be revived or human air support arrived, is a contrivance.

    Then in DOTM, things just go insane, with an endless list of contrivances. Even if contrivances are somehow acceptable, you can't honestly say this many unexplained events are.

    The 'Cons suddenly decided to take prisoners, they're too stupid to freaking disarm their prisoners, they're stupid enough to start the executions with the most nonthreatening prisoner, a character (wheelie) with a record of being the only 'Con to completely fail at stealth is able to sneak onto a 'Con ship unseen, that one particular ship just happens to fly exactly over where the 'Bots are being executed, none of the 'Cons have the basic survival instinct of covering their eyes when their eyes are being injured, the 'Cons fighter-craft have less effective firepower than the Earth jets did in ROTF, the 'Cons never think to use any of their giant-ass warships, etc.

    As for Megatron, every version of the character has ego, sure but they're not usually total idiots. No version of Megatron would just give up, Carly should never have gotten the chance to talk to him. Any other version of the character would already be plotting their comeback and none would run into a fight without thinking about how there's no chance for their survival.

    It is not true at all that most stories end with contrivances so the heroes can win. Age of Ultron had fans saying that the Avengers were underpowered so the villains wouldn't get instantly obliterated, Man of Steel (the only Superman film I've seen in years) had Superman beat an enemy who wasn't used to Earth's environment and... You've reminded me that I need to rewatch the good Terminator and X Men films, thank you, that gives me something to do next time I'm bored.

    I can't think of a single highly praised Batman film that's ending doesn't make sense. In Batman (1989) the hero won his first encounter with the main villain (that didn't have him pretending not to be Batman) simply by using a gadget we've seen him use all the time to use the Joker's method of transport against him. Batman Begins saw Batman use his League of Assassins (or was it Shadows) training, plus his crime fighting experience and better equipment to defeat the League. TDK saw him using a technology he'd used before to see through the Joker's deception and use skills and gadgets he'd used plenty of times to save the hostages and beat the Joker. Yes, those boats not blowing each other up was a contrivance but that was only important for defeating Joker's philosophy, not for actually physically stopping him. Yes, him surviving that fall with Two Face was maybe contrived. I'll also give you Batman fixing the remote control for "the Bat" in TDKR.

    Avatar the Last Airbender had the kids (to of which were teenagers) survive on the run and often had the help of adults. For the final battle, Aang had his training from throughout the whole show, plus his long established naturally superior powers to use against Ozai. On the Azula front, she was losing it but that didn't stop her from being an effective threat, countering her brother's attacks (a villain who's side changing had been set up long before it happened) then using trickery to win the fight. She only got beaten by Katara due to her failure to see a not so obvious trick. Not to mention, her losing it (her mind, not the fight) provided an actually interesting look into her character.

    I don't go into the TF movies looking for problems, heck, the first TF film got me into the franchise as a kid so I'd love to say they're good films but they're not. They are very flawed films.
     
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