How TF5 can reboot and distance itself from the other movies

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Dmhead, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    Yeah, I almost mentioned Leadfoot and Sentinel, too...but he did specify STILL alive so I give him a pass on those guys, lol.
     
  2. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Not really a fan of that idea. Imagine if Warner Brothers had handed Batman over to Christopher Nolan but the condition was that he couldn't contradict anything from the previous films and he had to keep all within the same continuity.

    If they are going to make any big changes after Transformer 5 or 6 I'd rather they just go bold and give a new production team a clean slate rather than a long list of characters they can't use.
     
  3. Zhadow

    Zhadow Oh hi there

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    Why do you really want a reboot even though you know they're building up a bigger universe?

    Is it because you think it would redeem the flaws and mistakes in the previous movies? Or is it you want to forget the bad reputation these movies have by starting from scratch again in hope for a new series with definitive prestige that you can like? Or maybe you're not a fan of watching the future sequels because of what your notions tell you?
     
  4. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    If they're going to do that, they also need to give the franchise a rest for 5-10 years, like WB did with Batman. It will happen eventually. I don't really want it to be soon, though.
     
  5. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Taking a break

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    I'm rather indifferent to the films but I stopped reading at Unicron.
     
  6. avengerboy123

    avengerboy123 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be fine with this, seeing how many times characters have already been resurrected for no good reason.
     
  7. jestermon

    jestermon Well-Known Member

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    If it isn't broke don't fix it.
     
  8. Zhadow

    Zhadow Oh hi there

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2015
  9. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    But doing so renders the concept of death pointless if everybody gets a resurrection free card.
     
  10. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Because I think big expanded universes have to be something that has been carefully thought out from the very beginning rather that something slapped together after 4 or 5 films. Part of what makes the Marvel Cinematic Universe work is having the long plan so they can say okay don't kill Loki we need him later and lets put in these bits now so they pay off when we get to Captain America 2.

    Heck even Warner Brothers and DC understand that you need somewhere rather clean to start from. It's hard to argue that the Christopher Nolan Batman films weren't wildly successful yet Warner Brothers is rebooting rather than saying we have to follow the rules of the Nolan Batman universe.

    No Starscream, no Soundwave, no Shockwave, no Devastator, no Ravage, no Laserbeak, no Jazz, no Ironhide. It's like when the Animated movie killed off too many characters and not everyone was happy with what was left. I don't want prequel films as the only way to get the coolest characters. Imagine the characters we wouldn't have gotten in Transformers Prime if that show had been stuck with all the past continuity of Transformers instead of being free to try new ideas with fan favorites?

    It also seems like the only way to turn around the domestic box office. After 4 films that were mostly the same I don't think you can get people excited with we have to finish this other story. If you look at where the Oscars stick the writers award people just don't get that excited about screen writers so if everything else on the production team is the same I don't think people are going to be rushing out to the theater because this time there is a different writer.
     
  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    This also lends an interesting support structure to the MCU films - there's more incentive to see ALL the films because each successive film will have little plot points or details that tie into other movies and their stories, which then keeps going on until the next big mash-up Avengers film.

    I.E. IM2 has Tony haul out a suspicously familiar looking round shield as a support for his laser reflector when he is about to make the replacement power core element (V-something, I forget), hinting at how Stark has some connection to Captain America. This is confirmed when his grandfather shows up in CA:TFA as the head tech guy who ultimately recovers the Tesseract. That of course ties into the reveal that the Tesseract is only one out of a set of similarly dangerous and powerful atifacts the Asgardians don't want to ever be reunited.

    Where the MCU succeeds is constantly being able to ramp up the stakes and scope without really losing sight of that goal. Where the TF films fail is that the stakes are inevitably always the same: driving humanity to extinction and the humans turn against their Autobot allies every single time.

    I actually disagree - that show bait/switched popular characters all the time. Cliffjumper? Dead in five minutes. Skyquake? Somehow died by hitting the ground to hard in his intro ep. Breakdown? So much story potential wasted. Wheeljack? Came and went as he randomly pleased, etc.

    That's probably the argument that annoys me more than anything - "they started a new trilogy so they have to finish it first before we can reboot!"

    What story is there to finish? Optimus flying off to confront the Creators means literally nothing because the only thing anybody even knows about them is they are called "The Creators". No motivation (sure, Lockdown says something about cleaning the playing board, but that would imply they just wanted Optimus dead, not brought in alive), no idea what they look like beyond a non-binding glimpse of some generic alien limb, there's absolutely no set up beyond "Optimus Prime flies off into space to go beat the shit out of others" which is hard to get excited over as he's been doing this for every single film.

    Galvatron on Earth? The hell is he gonna do? No army, no KSI to exploit, and a whole bunch of Autobots wanting him dead. Pratically every suggestion of where his plot thread could lead that I've seen notably has required Unicron entering the picture - which negates the point of Galvatron being considered a threat on his own if he needs the inexplicable presence of the ultimate TF big bad to have any kind of plot.
     
  12. Zhadow

    Zhadow Oh hi there

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    New takes on the characters, plot and sequences would be ideal when you're working with many different writers, so far mostly Ethan Kruger wrote the script etc. Sounds refreshing to see what ideas they've in store and planned when they're enthusiastic about it.
     
  13. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    I hate to be that guy but I didn't bring Marvel into this so don't blame me.

    Marvel movies almost always have the same stakes. Avengers, Age of Ultron, Thor 2, Guardians, Winter Soldier, First Avenger all of them the stakes are the earth or some kind of planet how is the end of guardians even remotely different from Avengers it's pretty much the same climax until the end. The stakes are usually the destruction of a planet and the extinction of something except for Iron Man and Ant man for the most part.

    There is one build up Infinity War it's the only place Marvel knows for sure they are going. The whole build up to Civil War Marvel pulled it out of their ass. They weren't certain they were even going to do it. Really Civil War should've been at the top of their agenda list certainly much higher than Infinity War.

    The movies aren't really connected yeah they have easter eggs and such but what connects most of them. Iron Man 2 the captain America shield was an easter egg it didn't affect the story or anything it was a throwaway the same kind of throwaway that a lot of movies use for fun. The whole set up for Thor had nothing to actually do with the movie it was a side plot that was nothing more than a big advertisement saying come see Thor.

    Iron Man 3 had nothing to do with the big picture at all Ant Man other than a post credit scene from a different movie didn't advance the story either. Thor the Dark World was connected to Avengers and does begin to set up Infinity War but it doesn't connect to Phase 2 in the slightest it was a big advertisement for Phase 3.

    Basically the Captain America's, The Thor's and the first Avengers movie that's all that connects even Age of Ultron's connection is questionable, everything else are a bunch of subplots that don't really tie into the whole other than revealing whatever the next Infinity Stone is, in other words mostly filler.

    The Transformer movie while definitely suffering continuity problems do still have an ongoing story. The humans don't betray them every movie in fact the movies actually build up to humanity's betrayal starting with Governments wondering if the Autobots cause the decepticons presence on Earth they are also angry they won't share their technology with them. Then you find out about secrets the government hid from them as well the fact that the Autobots are controversial topic on television than the humans turn their backs on them and exile them from Earth.

    Really that whole exile scene in Dark the trilogy does a pretty good job building up to it it does feel like the culmination of their interactions with the governments of Earth as well as their interactions with humanity. We then get Chicago which result's in the Autobots going into hiding the government protects them but a CIA unit is now secretly hunting them because they feel they can build their own and the world won't be safe until all transformers are gone.

    That is clearly a culmination everything the Autobots have been through everything has been leading to this the moment where after everything they do humanity stabs them in the back forcing them to question if we're worth it. That is an ongoing arc a very clear one I might add.

    .The Creators are the same as Thanos except they are impacting the plot now rather than later. They sent Lockdown to retrieve Prime why what do they want with him why not any of the others. They are responsible for the creation of the transformers why for what purpose and how does this relate to the Allspark. They created the seed which drives the story of the film. The Creators are the sole reason a lot of Age of Extinction even happens everything the humans are doing is because of events they set in motion an eternity ago they send Lockdown who is after Prime, They created the Seed which Galvatron seeks, they wiped out the dinosaurs which resulted in the discovery of transformium.

    They are important just like Thanos the difference is they're being introduced in the next one rather than waiting and waiting until the very end. What reason is there to do all this build up to Infinity War the comic didn't really have it so why does the movie especially when they're just going to gather all the stones again in part 1.

    Transformers is crafting their universe around something the introduction of the Creators. Age of Extinction was clearly made with other movies in mind they have some kind of direction they want to go in. How is Optimus going to confront the creators not a cliffhanger? What will happen when he confronts them, can he defeat them, should he, are they even the villains or is there something even worse out there. So many questions that Transformers 5 will likely answer.
     
  14. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Senior Robotic Citizen

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    Just to point this out for future reference Autobot Burnout, That was Tony's dad, not his grandfather. Just thought you should know that.
     
  15. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    For some reason I keep thinking Tony's in his 20's, thus why I default to thinking it was his grandad in the war, not his father.
     
  16. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    And incessantly suggesting that a wildly successful film series be prematurely dropped altogether, leaving TONS of loose ends dangling after abruptly dying on a MASSIVE cliffhanger for your own, personal satisfaction is somehow LESS annoying an argument?!?

    And what's with this "we don't even know anything about the Creators" bullshit? We know they caused the extinction of the dinosaurs on Earth and have done so to thousands of other lifeforms on thousands of other planets, just to mass produce a species of slaves who rebelled against them for their freedom, for starters. All of that is KIND OF a big deal, lol.

    Not to mention the fact that they obviously STILL have a vested interest in taming their creations and the promise of FINALLY learning SO MUCH about the origins of the transformers themselves in the next several films.

    That is A LOT to look forward to and EXTREMELY exciting, imho.

    Also, literally NOTHING has suggested that Unicron is the only way to go in the sequels. In actuality, the very fact that they have YET to even HINT at him leads to the opposite conclusion. And KSI still exists for Galvatron's exploitation, not to mention the obvious point that Galvatron himself guided his own reconstruction and the manufacturing of his new army.

    There is LIMITLESS story potential in ALL of these ideas.

    You should try opening your mind sometime, it's actually pretty fun if you let be.

    :-\
     
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  17. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Exactly there is a lot to do with the creators and we know plenty about them. Galvatron is clearly a threat like you said he guided his own resurrection who knows what he has waiting in the wings in truth he doesn't need an army there are seven billion puppets he can exploit not to mention the dinobots wandering around or even the Autobots. Megatron is very manipulative and can use anyone to his advantage it seems. The governments of Earth, the dinobots or even the creators or Unicron himself anyone could be his puppet.

    We knew nothing about the emperor should've they just dropped him in favor of Darth Vader. If you're not a comic book fan we know nothing of Thanos going by just the movies we know more about the creators and their intentions than we do Thanos should they just drop Thanos. Like Hazekiah already said above there is a lot unresolved there is a plot direction and if we went by your logic then every mastermind villain behind scenes should've just been forgotten.
     
  18. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I guess the big question with all these film series is how interested is the general public?

    For example if the Marvel series ran out of steam before they could do the big thing with Thanos it just doesn't seem like it would be in Disney's best interest to say let's just keep doing what we are doing until every story element has played out.

    So domestically will potential ticket buyers be interested enough in Galvatron, the creators, and other story elements to make it a domestic hit or will the movies get even more dependent on the overseas markets? Would those story elements be the sort of thing that can turn around the domestic numbers while still keeping the overseas numbers high? Who knows that's why films are still a gamble for a studio.
     
  19. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    :horse: 
     
  20. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan DEFIANTLILHORDE

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    I don't know, I don't think anyone really cares. The people that claim to be really invested in AOEs "cliffhanger" are either just numbed into indifference, lying, or just looking for an argument. That's the Bay Delusion!