because they are mostly terrible, but also sometimes enjoyable films.

 

I like you. I honestly appreciate the open-mindedness you have here. Thank you.

 

I read some of your replies in the recent threads here...we are on the same page.

 

People might be easily wooed into seats on a weekend by the light shows shown in the movies trailers, but almost no one you meet on the street
has a positive image of these movies. No one I've ever met in the UK or Japan anyway. The only people that seem to genuinely like these movies are the bay faithful on here.

 

"Easily wooed" four times over though?

The "Bay faithful" don't exist here, and if they do, they're in hiding because of the reasons *Deathblade has already mentioned.

If people go into a movie and enjoy it when they leave, that's a positive image. They don't have to necessarily shout it to the world that they loved it, or rush out to buy the toys.

Again, this is why the box office is brought up time and again, because someone is buying those tickets.

And blah blah blah, domestic/foreign... someone is *still* buying tickets, worldwide. Talking to a few people "on the street" in two countries isn't any good indication that tickets aren't being purchased while the box office is. I could say I've talked to people on the street but at the same time I leave the movies, there's people cheering in the audience once the battle is over.

Positive image indeed.

Ugh. So tired of repeating this.

TL;DR Fact is, you can't just take the opinion of some people and say it's not in a positive image to the point where people are buying tickets to keep seeing them four movies in a row.

 

In a nutshell, this person said it best, but it can go much deeper.

This question creeps up from time to time.
I'm fairly certain that entire books can be written explaining why the Bayformers universe really sucks.
Maybe when I have the time and the energy I'll come back to this thread.

 

So the hundreds of of in depth reviews, and thousands- make that virtually endless rants and raves haven't already answered your question?

 

Go visit Rotten Tomatoes.

You get the idea.

 

People cheering once the battle is over? Because they can finally leave!?  

Popular and positive aren't the same thing.

Smoking is popular, but I wouldn't say lung cancer has a positive image. A lot of people are joining Isis, but I wouldn't invite them around for tea either.

And yes, easily wooed 4 times over. Fireworks are attractive, the movies are expertly marketed. People are easily sucked in by impulse, some like me are eternally optimistic that the next one will be good, What makes you think it's the same people going over and over anyway?

As for what Deathblade was saying, I never attack people for saying they like these movies, I do like 1 and 4. But what I can't let go is people like you who perpetually scrape a barrel of bullshit excuses why these movies are better than they actually are, to try to beat down people that are expressing an opinion that's different to yours. But it's nothing personal, it's fun, and I know that door swings both ways!  

 

Why? because Michael Bay ruined them with stupid jokes, using the TFs for Actions Scenes only and have the human taking part most of the characterization. Overpowered US Military portrayal in the first 3 movies, too many Explosion Scenes, poor storytelling and full of dumb clichees, and partly ugly designs of the TFs.
The only good things are the Special effects.
They should have stopped with the first movie which was OK back then, But repeating the same stuff by just adding more explosions and effects does not make a movie better!

 

For my part, I remember thinking of the first film that the Transformers were barely in the movie. And in that case, you're requiring me to like the human characters, which was a tall order. Everyone just seemed like an unpleasant jerk. As for the juvenile humor in the second film, I blame a lot of that on the writer's strike, which never helps. That was just bad luck all around.

A compliment I will give Bayformers, it doesn't take itself too seriously, like a lot of comic book movies do lately. Plus having Peter Cullen there is always a plus.

As far as reputation, when people find out I'm a TF fan, they seem pretty aware that TF is more than just the Michael Bay movies. So that doesn't worry me too much.

 

I don't think popular and positive image is something that always goes hand and hand. Just look at how popular the show Jersey Shore was yet people don't have a positive image of New Jersey thanks to the show and the people who watched the show all the time really aren't looked on in a very positive light either.

Avatar wasn't exactly ground breaking Oscar material in anything like story or acting, but it was insanely popular thanks to it's 3D gimmick. Sometimes it's the gimmick that makes a movie popular and not the overall quality.

Plus popular often means going for the lowest common denominator to cast the widest net. I've liked wildly popular things but I would not call it the pinnacle of the art form.

 

For me, too much toilet humor and too much human interaction. It should be about the robots, and not have a side love story. Eye candy hotties are great, but the bots and cons have to take precedence.

 

This is why I post long comments because most of what you say about plot and character isn't true I've argued this before. They're not repeating the same thing how is Dark anything like Revenge how is the plot of Age anything like Revenge. I didn't see humans hunting the autobots in any of the previous sequels. I didn't see humans building their own transformers, I didn't see Prime losing his faith in humanity, I didn't see Lockdown, or the idea of the creators. So how is that doing the same thing. I didn't see the sam seeing cybertronian symbols in Dark, I didn't see Prime die, I didn't see a quest to find the Matrix and revive him, I didn't see the Fallen or the dynasty, I didn't see Sam in college wanting to live a normal life.

All I saw was an artifact, a conspiracy and a giant battle at the end that is all. The artifacts each serve different purposes. The Allspark is pretty straight forward mcguffin, the matrix is used to revive Optimus and also acts as a map to the tomb of the primes that is not the same purpose as the All spark, the space bridge is used to launch an invasion and transport cybertron the final battle isn't even fighting for it. The seed is a pretty straightforward mcguffin though it doesn't come into play until the ending.

The conspiracies are all different not including the first since no one ever brings that up. Revenge's conspiracy linked to the origins of the transformer race as a whole it was mostly a chase across the world playing only a small part in the actual film. Dark tied into the space race of the sixty's it acted as a mystery it also tied into nearly every plot of the film, and Age tied to the dinosaur extinction which mostly set up Galvatron's plan and the creators it wasn't even a central focus. These conspiracies are all used completely differently in the film and have varying decrees of focus not the same thing.

Big battle at the ending every action movie has a big battle at the ending are they rehashes too. Each movie's plot gets more complicated Dark has ten minutes of action before the third act so I say this once more and really get sick of it, remember more than the climax remember the actual movie. I posted somewhere that showed all the scenes where the robots were actual characters it far outweighed the humans it's in the just reboot it thread somewhere in page 11. If you want to know the character arcs go to Mark ryan at wheels dunstan page 7 all the detail you need is there. I'm tired of stating it, everything you complain about I counteract on those two pages especially the robots not being characters, you can go read them yourself.

 

I get SO SICK AND TIRED of hearing people ask, "Why do the movies get so much hate?"

I like the movies very, very much, but it is no mystery where the hate comes from or why it is here. They have VERY NUMEROUS, VERY OBVIOUS and EXTREMELY WELL-DOCUMENTED flaws. Many of us can overlook the flaws and enjoy the movies as they are. But that does not mean flaws don't exist. I can never understand why some people have so much trouble removing themselves from the equation and looking at something objectively.

And yeah, some people have issues concerning their personal tastes or expectations not being serviced. I'm not talking about that.

 

I agree with you it's a pointless question to ask there are understandable flaws and people do bring them up but they also state things that are simply put not true as well the whole nothing but action is not true each film has about twenty minutes of action tops before the final battle begins.

The human stuff people understandably complain about is about 15 to 20 minutes and some of it is necessary so what are the other 75 to 70 minutes of the film do they just not exist is the film only those fifteen or so minutes and the climax I mean do people miss the two dozen robot scenes do people miss that most of the human scenes have a robot in them usually prominently I mean what do people see for the other hour and half of the movie?

With Dark this is especially jarring the second half is very robot focused and very serious pretty much lacking any humor at all and people still say too much goofy humor there was no goofy humor in that half pretty much at all so I say one more time what were people seeing in that half?

 

I whoeheartedly agree.

It's like people seem to think that saying the film has flaws is simply hating on it, whereas you can only like films if you think they're flawless.

No film is perfect (except maybe The Godfather and Citizen Kane but that's besides the point here) and when it comes to action-oriented films they're always full of their fair share of flaws. As you say, it's possible to overlook the flaws and still enjoy the film, but that only goes so far as actually watching the film. It does not extend to ignoring the film's flaws when talking about it objectively.

- The drawn out bit of the Wreckers killing that one guy in the ship
- the gag about Bumblebee not being to sure about his skills in flying the ship
-Hardcore Eddie. Period.
- Starscream's drawn out whiny death of indignity (though given it's Starscream this is somewhat justified)
- Optimus getting caught up in loose crane wires and needing the wreckers (one of whom has a beer belly) to free him
- Pretty much everything around 'hacking into a bridge' (not the actual hacking - why everybody gets up in arms over that when it's obvious they're bridges controled by computers is beyond me)
- Simmons trying to do stuff despite being wheelchair bound
- Bumblebee's ring gag.

It's kind of a shocking contrast to the fact it's the setting to a massive murdering of humanity.

 

How long are most of those though Optimus getting tangled in wires I never really saw as humor he got trapped they helped him.

Bumblebee is just being honest he's not sure he can fly it I would prefer to know that before I'm in the air and it's what ten seconds tops.

The wreckers tearing the pilot apart is not humor at all and I don't really see how it could be looked at as it more a hell yeah than anything.

Hard core Eddie has what five lines it's hardly a lot, he has two lines in the falling building and his I didn't sign up for this that's all.

The Hacking the bridge is not humorus except for Dutch's line Simmons reaction afterwards the rest is Navy guys arriving and Lennox and Epps meeting up none of which is comedy once again 15 seconds maybe a little more.

Simmons doesn't try to do anything he has only one funny line in the whole climax.

The ring thing is in the ending the drama and tension are pretty much done nearly every action movie has humor after the climax is over.

 

On top of all that, people tend to use humor as a defense mechanism in times of strife. Any minor humor bit can just be seem as trying to alleviate one's nerves. Especially when, you know, you're inside a collapsing building.

 

Yeah, see, I think that's dumb too.

They should have to have new parts forged and be manually rebuilt.