Props to Marvel: they managed to make an idea formerly relegated to the medium of comics - that is, a shared universe - and made it work for film. Now everyone's trying their hand at it. Sony was all ready to bring the Spider-Man universe to film (until they pissed everyone off with the Spider-Man sequel [That I actually kinda like tbh]), DC's actually gonna be working backwards from a Justice League film, which could be pretty interesting to see...hell, Kevin Smith even did this. He actually made films within his View Askewniverse before the concept for an Iron Man film was soup in Kevin Feiges crotch.

And now Hasbro has hired Akiva Goldsman, Oscar winning writer of A Beautiful Mind (because when I think Transformers, I think a mentally unstable Russel Crowe [so really just Russel Crowe]), to lead a team of writers to develop a Transformers Cinematic Universe. The fan reaction was as such:


But, since I'm a neurotic asshole who has to over analyze everything cool until it sucks, I have to say, this might not be a good idea, at least not with the current films. I say this because...

1. The Films Didn't Start As A Cinematic Universe

With the current generation of Cinematic Universe films, the first entry in the series is meant to serve as an introduction not just to the character, but to the world they inhabit. Iron Man introduced us to Stark Industries and SHIELD, Man of Steel introduced us to Superman and Metropolis... Granted, Marvel was a little more certain there would be a sequel, but the point is that they used this movie to introduce the world, and weren't afraid to leave some minor plot threads open, as they knew they could resolve them in future films.

The first Transformers movie...um...well, they left Barricade open?

Face it, every TF flick that Bay directs, he directs like it's the last one he'll make, with all things (for the most part) wrapped up by the end. He doesn't really leave anything left in the sandbox to play with.

Now, true, Age of Extinction sort of wipes the slate clean, and whether or not you like the movie, you have to admit that the world building in it was pretty damn good. But that brings me to the next point...

2. They've Already Gotten Rid Of The Cool Stuff

Quick-let's go over all that has been irreversibly destroyed in the current films, assuming they don't fuck us in the ass and magically bring it all back.

-The Allspark
-Megatron
-Starscream
-Sentinel Prime
-Roadbuster
-Ratchet
-Lockdown
-Most of the Autobots from the past three movies
-Their ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET

Now do me a favor - come up with a story just from what was listed there. There's a 90% chance that movie kicked total ass. Now bend down and kiss your own ass, cause you're never gonna see that shit on screen.

The films were less concerned with building an actual world and just telling a stand alone story with what had already been established in previous media. For an ongoing film series that only goes forward, that works okay. But that's the thing - cinematic universe's have to focus on the past as well.

I don't know how to transition to the next point. Play me off, Tyler.


3. The Plot Has More Holes Than Ratchets Corpse

It's almost pointless to talk about this, as there are COUNTLESS articles about the plot holes in these films. But since there's always that one guy in threads who jumps to the movies defense whenever you make a valid point about it's flaws...

ROTF:
How are the Transformers kept secret when thousands of people, in the Information Age, saw them murder each other in movie 1? That shit would have been on MySpace instantly (holy fuck movie 1 is old)

If Alice was a Pretender, why didn't that fuck boy Bumblebee tell Sam?

If Mikaela had the second Allspark shard, why didn't she give it to the military so they could revive Optimus? Shit, it brought back Megatron, and he killed the one guy that could defeat the Fallen.

If only a Prime could defeat the Fallen, why didn't the other Primes in the past just gang up on The Fallen? Hell, they didn't even need to all jump in. Like two of the Primes could have just stayed behind and recorded that shit while they shouted "WORLDSTAR!"

Jetfire can teleport. How. Why.

This isn't a plot hole, but it's still depressing


DOTM:

So NEST has Energon detectors all over the world. No one notices Sam's little Decepticon watch?

Apparently there's like 50 Decepticon battalions on the moon. Gee, that sure would have come in handy two movies ago.

So you're telling me that Sam, the guy who saved the world twice and went to robot heaven (I don't count that as a plot hole, but I still don't know how he got there if he doesn't have a Spark), can't get a job? Fuck. That. He should be getting offers left and right, he should be getting turnt with Drake and Tunechi, the dude should be drowning in blowjobs. How the fuck is he in the mailroom? Don't give me that "Oh It's Classified" bullshit, Sam at least should have gotten some "Sorry For The Whole Interstellar War" reparations.

The Autobots fake their death so they can have the element of surprise...that they immediately blow by letting the aforementioned fuck boy Bumblebee fly a Decepticon plane. Thanks for letting thousands of people die for nothing, Optimus!

AOE

So even with Cemetery Wind's advanced Cybertronian detection tech, they can't spot Optimus in Marky Marks barn (that sounded way dirtier than I had hoped)

The KSI bots can turn into swarms of particles...shouldn't that technically make them unkillable? I mean, if they get hit, they can just swarm out and form back together. And yet somehow a few dumbass Autobots take them all out.

So you're telling me Lockdown never notices that a part of his Rhode Island sized ship is just gone until like 4 hours later? My car can tell me if my tire pressure is off by even a fraction of a percent, but he doesn't notice till he's in the atmosphere?

Now sure, spin off's can fix some of these plot holes, but they can only go so far - any semblance of a plot is beyond fucked in these movies. But of course, that isn't really the films crews fault, because...

4. Hasbro Studios Doesn't Care If The Movies Are Good

Look guys, I love Hasbro. They make toys like a motherfucker, and the new Combiner Wars stuff is great. They also genuinely care about their fans - they're willing to endorse BotCon and interact with anyone who enjoys their products, no matter who they are. You get the feeling that the people who work there love what they do.

Yeah, I used to think that too. I remember going to Slag-A-Con one year (god I miss those conventions) and meeting someone, a long time Transformers fan, who got the opportunity to go and work for Hasbro. I was instantly jealous of the guy... and that's when he told me that he left in less than a year, because everyone their only cared about making money.

In this economy, I can't blame them for that. It's hard for any company to stay afloat, especially a toy company. But the problem isn't that they need to make money. It's that it's becoming their only concern. They don't care if anyone actually likes their products - just as long as people buy them.

Nowhere is this more apparent than with Hasbro studios. They routinely pump out shitty film after shitty film (What the fuck was that Ouija bullshit), but people keep seeing them, so they keep making them. At no point did Hasbro make any effort to actually make the films BETTER, because they didn't understand the moviegoers language. The only language Hasbro speaks is guap, and right now, the guap says "People Love The Bay Films!". If they keep making bank every time they make a movie, why should they stop now?

In Conclusion

Before I finish this overly long article, I want to make one thing perfectly, absolutely clear, because I don't feel much like getting castrated in the board;

IF YOU LIKE THE MOVIES, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FINE.​

It doesn't mean you're wrong, or that you're stupid, or anything. Hell, if I'm gonna be honest, I like the movies myself. However, I also like cigarettes, but I'm not gonna convince myself that they're good for me (BTW don't start smoking, that's money that could go to the new toys [also cancer is bad]).

I'd love to see a Transformers cinematic universe someday - but until any serious improvement is shown in the movies, or the slate is wiped absolutely clean and a new crew helms the series, I can't fuck with the idea. When it comes to the Transformers movies I have to quote T.I. - "I Don't Want No Mediocre".

 

Wow, so many answerable "plot holes" so little time.

 

A lot of valid points.

Buuuuuut people don't want to see a rehash of same things(Spiderman, Hulk, Punisher), I think rebooting with a planned out universe would likely be deadly to the movie franchise. Especially since some of the things already done were done very well, keep the cinematic universe going and explore things from there.

 

How are the Transformers kept secret when thousands of people, in the Information Age, saw them murder each other in movie 1? That shit would have been on MySpace instantly

The government could remove the videos/pic for one. They clearly paid off people to shut about it also, and other people would be ridiculed as conspiracy nuts. People definitely did have suspicions though, Leo did.


If Alice was a Pretender, why didn't that fuck boy Bumblebee tell Sam?

He might not have know she was a Decepticon. He did get rid of her though.

If Mikaela had the second Allspark shard, why didn't she give it to the military so they could revive Optimus? Shit, it brought back Megatron, and he killed the one guy that could defeat the Fallen.

NEST was already disbanded at that point, what makes you think they would have even listened to her?

If only a Prime could defeat the Fallen, why didn't the other Primes in the past just gang up on The Fallen? Hell, they didn't even need to all jump in. Like two of the Primes could have just stayed behind and recorded that shit while they shouted "WORLDSTAR!"


How is this a plot hole? Maybe more like bad strategy?

Jetfire can teleport. How. Why.

Because he can? Again, is this really a plot hole?

So NEST has Energon detectors all over the world. No one notices Sam's little Decepticon watch?

Who knows, maybe they weren't looking?

Apparently there's like 50 Decepticon battalions on the moon. Gee, that sure would have come in handy two movies ago.


Starscream was in charge up until the last few minutes of the movie and he didn't know about Megatron's plan. They didn't have the space bridge tech either, so Megatron probably didn't want to wait for them to get there.

So you're telling me that Sam, the guy who saved the world twice and went to robot heaven (I don't count that as a plot hole, but I still don't know how he got there if he doesn't have a Spark), can't get a job? Fuck. That. He should be getting offers left and right, he should be getting turnt with Drake and Tunechi, the dude should be drowning in blowjobs. How the fuck is he in the mailroom? Don't give me that "Oh It's Classified" bullshit, Sam at least should have gotten some "Sorry For The Whole Interstellar War" reparations.

First of all, who says it was "Robot Heaven" it could have been a vision in his head? Second of all, his activities were it was classified. He said so himself, he couldn't tell Malcovich about saving the world. He did get reparations, the government paid for his education at the very least, they probably bought his parents that huge RV as well.

The Autobots fake their death so they can have the element of surprise...that they immediately blow by letting the aforementioned fuck boy Bumblebee fly a Decepticon plane. Thanks for letting thousands of people die for nothing, Optimus!

They did blow it immediately, they got pretty far into the city. Also they needed surprise to actually get from Florida to Chicago in one piece.

So even with Cemetery Wind's advanced Cybertronian detection tech, they can't spot Optimus in Marky Marks barn (that sounded way dirtier than I had hoped)

They were never shown with advanced Cybertronian detection tech. They had thermal vision when they found Ratchet. Who knows how long they had been tracking him? They weren't in the barn very long before Optimus attacked.

The KSI bots can turn into swarms of particles...shouldn't that technically make them unkillable? I mean, if they get hit, they can just swarm out and form back together. And yet somehow a few dumbass Autobots them all out.

Maybe if enough blocks get destroyed they can't reform? Maybe they are just not that smart?

The KSI bots can turn into swarms of particles...shouldn't that technically make them unkillable? I mean, if they get hit, they can just swarm out and form back together. And yet somehow a few dumbass Autobots them all out.

Don't know. Maybe that indicator is broken?

 

Some very valid points.

The only thing that might be the best thing to do is explore new characters/teams in new movies or explore the history more...

 

Wow, so many wholesale fabricated explanations, so little time.

Why are you so damn dismissive of everyone who says anything negative about Bayverse?

 

Your plot holes list just degenerated into your laundry list of things you don't like/common complaints we've had for years now. Nothing wrong about it, a lot of these are at first glance problems, but most of them can be explained to some degree. While there is a limit to where you're thinking "aw this is stupid, this makes no sense", there are times where you can just shrug and move on.

1. Well, there was a global communications blackout during the Mission City battle, that's my best shot, but like you said, the Internet was a different place even eight years ago compared to today.
2. Alice was a spy; she wouldn't be a very good spy if Autobots could detect her.
3. Mikaela and the others were rushed away and sent on the run in the face of not only the global Decepticon attack, but the ensuing manhunt for Sam that the government was considering giving in to.
4. They did, but Jetfire explicitly said The Fallen was stronger than the others.
5. He's old. Not many read the comics but I'm guessing it was going to be explained in-film that Seekers had technology in them that later bots don't.
6. We all regret Devastator's balls and we've all moved on.
7. See my response to your Alice issue.
8. It's implied that the Decepticons on the moon stationed themselves there in the time between ROTF and DOTM, explaining their lull in activity during that time.
9. He did get his school paid for, and it's repeatedly mentioned in-story how shitty it was that he couldn't get a job.
10. Bumblebee wasn't visible when flying inside that ship, was he now? And it's not like the Autobots figured they'd keep their cover for the entire time.
11. To their credit, they were clearly about to look in the underground pit Optimus hid himself in once they, you know, found it. I'm guessing Optimus was shielding his energy signature.
12. Eh, you can't be on top of everything. Their directive was to kill the Autobots and get the Seed. The only drone that showed much intelligence was Stinger.
13. Yeah, once in a lifetime lapse of intelligence for Lockdown.

And the "cool stuff" certainly isn't universal for everyone; I loved Ratchet but many didn't and they're perfectly justified to not. Totally just your opinion.

Now that my dirty work is done...

TF1 and ROTF had a number of Decepticons survive each movie (Barricade, Scorponok and Starscream; Megs and Scream) to leave the door open for future appearances/plot threads, but yes, in general, the movies are all self-contained stories that somewhat build on each other, until AOE.

It's clear that the end of AOE, with letting the Dinobots loose, leaving the Autobots with the Yeagers, sending Optimus into space, and having Galvs swear revenge, was intended to leave more doors open than last time. But frankly we don't know which movie will follow which routes.

These movies are starting a streak of taking in a billion dollars in each sitting, so yeah, you're right, Hasbro doesn't care about the quality. They did seem concerned about the crude humor of ROTF, and obviously that and critical reception got through to Bay so it got fixed. And sad to say, the only thing that will make Hasbro care is when these movies stop making as much money. I remember at the TFP panel at Botcon 2011 I think, Aaron Archer spent half the panel raving about how the movies "changed everything" and how they were so good for Hasbro.

It really is going to take an Amazing Spider-Man 2 to get Hasbro worried about anything. I do see people getting tired of spin-offs and the franchise beginning to make less profit, and once the movie cash pump dies, who know what'll happen to the rest of the brand.

 

The biggest issue, IMO, is #2 in the OP. They've already done and eliminated a lot of cool stuff from the universe. That being said, they could do some movies set in the past focusing on things that have been alluded to or mentioned in brief in the movies so far--like focusing on NEST and their various missions with the Autobots, the seekers searching for the harvester and matrix and sector 7 trying to track them, etc.

That being said, the latest movie did open other doors, as others have mentioned.

 

There is still a allot cool stuff form the transformers mythos to bring in

The starsaber, The forge of solus prime, Vector sigma, the hate plague, Headmasters, primus and big U.

I see megatron and Starscream begin gun as good things, we can get lesser deceptions to show up, like lockdown did.

 

Ok, so refute my wholesale fabrications. I only dismiss things when they are worthy of being dismissed. Most of these points are non-issues. Even point 2 minor. There is way more cool stuff in other shows/comics that haven't been used that stuff that already has been.

 

They paid off thousands of people. Right.

That makes about as much sense as Frank Miller's All-Star Crazy STeve and Dick Grayson Age Twelve having the Graysons being GUNNED DOWN in front of hundreds of witnesses and then having the corrupt cops silencing all the witnesses.

Somebody sure got fired that day for slacking on the job...

 

Not everyone, but Sam's parents were paid off. Its not unreasonable to think others got paid as well.

 

Remember the coverup was called out in movie as being bull shit, despite the goverments best efforts.

 

The Streisand Effect pretty much guarantees the governments can't do this.

Actually, he still kinda failed at that - he never successfully managed to keep them permanently separated because he would end up breaking cover, otherwise.

How did NEST get disbanded when it's clearly functioning as usual in DOTM?

There's literally no reason why they didn't just kill The Fallen over the convoluted failure of an alternative they came up with - I mean, excluding the comics it's never explained where The Fallen has been this whole damn time.

As of DOTM it is. He calls his teleporting a "spacebridge." Given how a completely separate collection of pillars is also called a spacebridge in DOTM and requires Sentiel's exclusive operation, that's two absolutely different things using the exact same name.

I'm fairly certain radiation-detecting equipment meant to passively detect the mechanical lifeforms giving off Energon energy signatures don't turn off randomly.

So where did the Decepticon reinforcements that visibly smash into the desert (including CloneCrusher) come from, then?

Not to mention DOTM's plot necessitates that Soundwave and the Moon Decepticons have been active since the early 70's. Or the problem with how Megatron apparently planned two completely seperate long-term operations revolving around the use of the Matrix of Leadership that had polar opposite goals: if The Fallen had won, humanity would be dead. If Sentinel Prime had won, humanity would be the slave labor force rebuilding their planet - which apparently was chosen specifically because of its proximity to the Sun (which wouldn't exist if The Fallen had won, either)

Frankly, Megatron seemed to have no clear plan of what he ultimately was even trying to do with how many things he had going that kept sabotaging everything else he was trying to do at the same time.

- Judging from how everybody else was acting, Sam looked to be at death's door right before he goes and talks to dead alien robot people. And then the Matrix magically reforms itself from dust.

- The way the movie acted, it was like he couldn't get a job at a McDonalds or something else with high employee turnover/refreshing rates.

- And he still got a shitty car out of that deal?

They still could have been more efficient about the matter - they just had to fake their deaths, not actually be on the ship (which is sorta what they did anyway by hiding in the empty booster stage rocket). They could have even skipped being launched into space entirely by exiting through a side door or something and launching the entire spaceship + booster combination without anything actually aboard it. If they managed to cross 2,000 miles+ (they landed in the ocean so it was a far longer distance) without detection, they could've just as easily hidden in a large bunker under the launch complex or something and skipped all the trouble.

How advanced do you think CW's tech needs to be if Energon detection equipment already existed as of ROTF?

That kind of glaring weakness invalidates the entire point of making those knock-offs, though, doesn't it? Like, in the first film they briefly mentioned that high-heat SABOT incendiary rounds were effective against Cybertronians, as was cold later on when S7 captured Bumblebee.

A can of liquid nitrogen or some AXE body spray + a lighter would be enough to defeat the CW bots if outright destruction of the individual components is a factor - just one block missing would cause the whole thing to fail.

These really don't count - the former is a sword but since Prime already got the upgrade sword in AoE there's no point, and the latter would be a sorry replacement for the AllSpark in the plot device purposes it would fill.

Because Cybertron totally getting destroyed means these things that revolve around Cybertron's existence (except headmasters but as a concept...well, ROTF proved overt combining gimmicks do not work out for the movies) can totally happen...even though without Cybertron they can't actually be around.

Megatron isn't gone - he just got turned into Galvatron. He's literally more or less just as useless as before, though.

And Lockdown technically isn't even a Decepticon, he's just sold as one for the purposes of the toyline.

 

OP is absolutly right.

So i say
WE NEED A REBOOT TO FORM A LARGE SCALE CINEMATIC UNIVERSE A GOOD IDEA

Who disagrees with my opinion?

 

I agree and disagree because if they want to form a large scale cinematic universe then reboot the entire franchise but for the sake of the nonexistent continuity of the films we need a TF 5 and 6 just to pathetically tie up loose ends to the somewhat infinite plot holes TF 1-4 have.

 

you missed the point completely.

with the exception of vector sigma none of those revolve around cybertron, and VS could of survived easily, just say that chamber was to well built to be destroyed by some thing as simple as a planet collapsing.

really i think some people just lack imagination.

 

I'm tired of the word reboot now. A reboot won't take place any time soon.

 

Personally I think it would be better to just reboot now and never bother with those lose ends.

There has to be a point where continuing down the path of exponentially decreasing quality is not worth finding out the answers that Kruger didn't even have planned out when he wrote AoE in the first place. There is nothing that "The Creators" can possibly be that won't make them different from what they were established as being in AoE because they aren't established to begin with. There's just not enough there about them beyond a namedrop, a vague reason for them being the plot device that explains why Lockdown is around, and the barest suggestion of what they actually look like - which for all we know isn't even a part of them.

So, I have to ask: is there a way for the movies to actually have a satisfying conclusion that isn't going to be a major let down?

You mean your point about how they can draw from the "lesser Decepticons" and my point was that they have run so dry that they're having to use guys who are barely Decepticons in the first place now? Lockdown is a bounty hunter/mercinary, and Stinger isn't really even a character as it was a prop. The only real Decepticon was Galvatron and he's a pathetic sack of crap compared to TF1 Megatron.

Yeah, because Cybertron being the physical embodiment of Primus apparently has nothing to do with Cybertron having been erased from existence.

The planet fucking imploded - as in collapsed in on itself into a singular mass point.

It wasn't so much weight of a planet made entirely of metal as the gravitational pull of an event that rivals the gravitational pull of a black hole's event horizon almost.

Cybertron is erased. Gone. You're suggesting VS is a goddamn Tardis if you think anything could have survived that.

There's imagination, and then there's ignorance of grounded aspects of reality on which the films are supposed to be built on.