AOE Op is the very BASIC FOUNDATION for a realisitic PTSD portrayal. As much fun as I had with AOE, what it had was one or two very good character concepts it did little to work with. Optimus suffering from trauma, loosing his way, becoming bitter are EXCELLENT bench poles for a great character study. But he's in a movie with jokes about statutory rape. He is not in a smart movie. He's in a movie that is not trying to be smart. So you never move beyond the bench poles. The Cade/Op conversation isn't actually a conversation. Optimus says one or two fairly interchangeable lines, Cade gives a speech, Optimus stares. The reprecussions of this are never properly dealt with. And in fairness, were clearly never meant to be. AOE is exactly what it's meant to be as a movie and it's difficult to criticise it for bieng that.

That being said, being as objective as I can be with a highly subjective medium, there really is no comparison in terms of quality. CA2 has well developed characters whose issues not only drive the story but are explored and used wisely. Character conflict is well handled, humour is easy and comes naturally from the dialogue, resolutions are driven by a fine combination of character and plot and plot points are introduced, developed and examined. By comparison, AOE never moves beyond archetypes and explores little, dialogue is often stilted and interchangable, humour is in your face and faaaaaairly obnoxious (didn't stop me laughing) and plot points are frequently very poorly handled or developed (Dinobots, Knights of Cybertron etc. both exceptionally poorly handled. Decepticons only fair marginally better. Lockdown is easily the best developed plot point). In terms of camera work, effects and fight choreography, CA2 is very well handled and a marked improvement over its predecessor on all fronts. AOE continues the trend of the Transformers movies not evolving past ROTF in terms of effects and the fights are...fine if very hindered by the camera work. And in an age where the CGI spectacle is now nothing special, a movie built on it requires exceptional levels of both and TF hasn't been exceptional visually in a long time.

I actually don't think CA2 is the best Marvel movie. I think Guardians and Avengers both outstrip it. But it is an excellent popcorn movie that combines excellent action, good acting and solid plot. AOE, again being as objective as I can because I still have more fun with it than ANY other TF movie, does nothing special, wastes it's biggest marketing tool and repeats 80-90% of the mistakes of all three previous movies, if often to a somewhat lesser degree. They're just not on the same tier.

Again, absolutely awesome to enjoy either movie. Or not. You can enjoy a bad movie (I still love to watch Van Helsing) and not enjoy a good one (I'm not that big a fan of The Dark Knight). But one shows where the genre is going and one shows where it was betwenn 2000 and 2005.

 

Pffffffffffft get outta here with this thread. AOE is garbage just like the other 3. Cap 2 is worlds greater than all 4 of these movies combined.

 

Uh no, Captain America 2 is a vast improvement over it's predecessor and one of the best Marvel Movieverse films out there. AoE is, without a doubt, one of the worst films in this entire decade and an irredeemable turd. AoE has no character development whatsoever.

 

I’m getting the feeling nobody’s looking past the title and reading what I put...  

Thank you.

I just think that both films are different enough to stand on their own and to be watched and enjoyed, but also do share similar elements that were worth talking about. For instance, I didn’t care for the Mandarin twist in IRON MAN 3, but a lot of people loved it. I thought Superman 1978 a better film than MAN OF STEEL, while others say the opposite.

But in having to directly compare and judge the two, I'd have to agree that TWS is a better film than AOE. It was better-written, less xenophobic and more positive, and had the advantage of giving the hero a chance to display mercy.

Uh... we saw their nationalistic and extremist tendencies in ROTF and DOTM.

To be honest, TF was never really anything philosophical. Decepticons want to conquer and destroy, Autobots seek to stop them. While it would be interesting to explore their motivations, it’s not like they're overly Freudian complex characters.

I highly doubt these films are actually endorsing such values.

I would call Bayformers Prime the most adult one in TF history. It’s never really been easy to mesh the adult reality of an alien war on Earth with the cartoonish fun of Bots vs Cons. And most of the time Prime does what he has to do, and is never really given an opportunity to really do what is truly noble; I’d chalk this up to Bay’s understanding of war and battle, but also to the fact that Optimus Prime is an Autobot leader and thus a general.

It’s the price to pay for having a realistic approach to these films, I guess. I wish Optimus had been noble enough to spare Megatron in DOTM, but that wouldn’t be realistic. I also wish humans would get over their xenophobia and start giving the Autobots the respect they deserve, but that’s not happening either.

And if the MCU was more geared towards reality, the heroes would just be as feared as any of the X-Men or Autobots have been. So thank goodness they displayed appropriate laxity on that regard.

 

+1.

 

Whoa. I see the "my opinion is fact and if you disagree, you're wrong" schtick is still alive and well.

 

AoE is still better. The Winter Soldier shouldn't have become a loose end at the end of the movie when the movie is named after him

 

Uhm, why not? Having ‘Winter Soldier’ in the title is to introduce the character and imply that he is a significant factor, not resolve him. Frankly, given his history with Steve, and if they follow the comics to any degree, his future, there’s no way they could or should have the Bucky Barnes saga wrapped up in a 90 minute film, even without the other aspects of the story.

Perhaps the only true similarity between these two films is that the ended with a newly initiated hunt for a loose end from the movie. Of course the similarity ends there, as Cap, like any three-digit IQ possessing individual, gets information and starts formulating a plan before actually setting out on his quest. Prime, battle damaged, low on fuel and ignorant of any intel on the Creators sets out with his newly sprouted magic jet boots (which probably would have been very helpful in the battle they just had, but hey, the lowest common denominator doesn’t think that hard so who cares) in search of these bad guys who, despite Prime not bothering to research them, can be assumed to have vast resources and a very likely powerful enemy. Oh, and as he hasn’t bothered to do any research on them, Prime sets out into space low on fuel (I’m no astrophysicist, but I’m pretty sure that space is a huge f’n place) having no idea where to look for these guys. Custer had more f’n sense than this incarnation of Prime.

So tell me again what AOE is the better movie?????

Seriously, script written with crayons.

 

...

 

With respect to the OP, I get the comparisons you're making between the two...but my opinion is Cap was a much higher quality film, regardless of comparisons.

You could also draw many comparisons between a Chevy Pinto and a new Cadillac - both have engines, wheels, a hood...but the execution is vastly different.

Just my two cents tho, and I'm a fan of both franchises btw.