I've spent the better part of a few months doing calculations, searching for comic scans, sifting through episodes, memorizing scale charts and tv bibles, and reading profiles for a project such as this. I've always wanted a real scale chart for the really big characters of transformers fiction. The original G1 cartoon scale charts don't include the city-bots, and the comics mostly use the same scaling for the main Autobots and Decepticons but their use of artistic license deviates once we get to the titanic characters. We're often told that scale doesn't exist in Transformers, and that's true to an extent. But I've gone through as much canon as I could to create a sense of consistency for each continuity and series. First up is G1 Marvel Comics. This chart includes characters from Jetfire's height upwards, so 9-10 meters and up. Let me know if you think I missed anyone. Metroplex- Stated height of 698 feet in UK pamphlet Warworld Starscream- Based on Optimus Prime and Megatron's height; Obviously Starscream is larger considering how big the War World is altogether Underbase Starscream- Based on Powermaster Optimus and Scorponok, though Starscream is obviously farther away than his closest foot Abominus & Computron- Based on relative height of humans at feet Menasor & Superion- Based on relative height of humans in scene Devastator- Stated to be 7-ish times smaller than Metroplex in UK pamphlet, comic appearance is consistent, though profile says "over 60 feet" Predaking- Stated height of 80 feet Last Autobot- Based on Action Master Optimus being the same size as his original form Liege Maximo- Based on nothing really... He's fucking huge and other than Rook in the foreground I got nothing to go by Omega Supreme- Based on height of Megatron Defensor & Bruticus- Based on heights of Optimus Prime and Megatron, making them consistent with standard cartoon height for combiners Trypticon- Based on size of Dinobots beating his ass, specifically Grimlock Fortress Maximus- Based on size of Spike and Cerebros Dreadwind- Stated height of 42 feet in UK comics Powermaster Optimus Prime- Based on size relative to Blaster and Spike Scorponok- Based on size relative to PM Prime Sky Lynx- Based on human crowd around Piranacon- Based off fight with Galvatron since I sadly couldn't find better scans Jetfire- Starting point, size is consistent with Cartoon portrayal Coming Up- G1 Animated Series G1 IDW G1 Dreamwave G1-BW-Car Robots Japanese Continuity Unicron Trilogy TF: Animated TF: Prime Video Games/Miscellaneous All together All your giants are belong to us!
Dude that's awesome! The only thing I'm confused about is the scale of Fortress Maximus with that of Metroplex. Although, come to think of it, it wouldn't make sense for a Battleship/Fortress sized Transformer like Fortress Maximus to be bigger than a City sized Transformer like Metroplex, I guess. Does Trypticon scale with Metroplex or is that a different story?
This isn't the Cartoon, just Marvel Comics. Each series is different with regards to city-bots. Metroplex is always huge, but Fortress Maximus is huge in the American and Japanese cartoons. In the Rebirth it isn't conclusive but he's clearly bigger than a combiner, but not shown next to Metro. In Headmasters he's clearly the larger of the two. Metroplex only appeared in the UK Comics, not the US ones. Trypticon appeared as large+ villain under Ratbat's command in the comics but like Scorponok and Fortress he was nerfed down from city sized. No Transformer is shown in their city modes in the Marvel Comics, just with bases or battle platform modes. Metroplex is the odd man out as he's shown swatting a Quintesson armada and is the core of Autobot City.
So basically what you're telling us is scale is a bear. gotcha. But man, fantastic work, and way to cite your sources and methods!
Fo sho'! Fuck, you've studied this well! Guess I'm still stuck on fanon then! Does it sound odd that the Marvel Comics had this more realistic vibe? It still falls under science fiction like the cartoon. Just a bit more fleshed out. That's Cobalt Agent for ya! "If ya don't like it, fuck off!" is what I'd say. But he takes things to the next level, just keeps on creating, and welcomes suggestions.
Well Marvel had their problems with scale too. Just as the cartoon had different animators the comics had different artists. Sometimes standard sized bots like Blaster are big enough to use cars like roller skates (That happened once). Omega Supreme is notorious after his first appearance for changing size. It may be less apparent but it's there. That's why for this I used what little resources I had to find the best examples of artwork and consistent sizes I could. The cartoon obviously had fluctuating scale, but at least we know the size they're *supposed* to be thanks to the scale guides we have. Though God knows this would've been easier if after over 20 years of cancellation people were willing to post scans of comic pages or even just frames. I for the life of me can not find a picture of Abominus fighting Computron on Nebulos, or Piranacon lifting Scorponok's ship, et cetera.
Do you think that any artists deliberately exaggerated scales between characters (either in terms of simply drawing them at different sizes or playing with perspective), and do you think that there's any correlation between that and their overall "style" (say, the cleaner, more "technical" lines of someone like, say, Perlin compared to the more stylized art of someone like Senior)?
Well absolutely artistic license was taken. That's a given. Sometimes it's to a ridiculous level. Though Bumblebee is likely the most consistently exaggerated. Bumblebee is stated 15 feet in the original miniseries but is later matched to the cartoon scale of being roughly 9-10 feet (KID FRIENDLY). As for style matching scale... yeah. Sometimes characters are drawn so out of scale they can fit a human in the palm of their hand, and usually the worst scale is frankly from the worst artists. Ironically lazy artists can prove to be better with scale since they copy right from the character model.
I meant more in the way of "do some artists or eras contribute more to scale inconsistency than others, either by deliberate inconsistency (as shown above), or stylistic inconsistency (where the perspective makes compared sizes appear different, even if the characters are still more or less in scale with their environments)?" If you take say, some single artists or issues out of the mixture as "noise", can you tighten up the ranges considerably?
Oh sure. That's what would be called an outlier. If one issue or artist by style or accident has Optimus the size of the Empire State Building when he's pretty consistently 6.1~ish meters, it clears things up a lot. Think of it like this- the cartoons were never perfect but think how much better they'd be if you ignored AKOM? If you just took the story of Carnage In C-Minor without the *horrific* errors and discrepancies it wouldn't have been nearly as bad as say... B.O.T. You don't have to account for why Constructicons can fit in Ultra Magnus' hands. Regardless, without those horrible scale problems Devastator, Ultra Magnus, et cetera are all back to being relatively consistent. The same applies to the comic. Obviously exclusion based on context and rational observations has to take place. There's just no other way. You have to approach this from the standpoint of "That makes sense, this doesn't". Outliers. Exception that proves the rule.
Have you done any sort of exclusion on the data, or kept everything into account? Actually, how hard would it be for you to add range bars onto the scaled images you posted in the OP to show relative consistency? Are more popular characters more consistent in general due to increased focus and repeated use, compared to characters who only show up a few times with large gaps in between? Does time help "settle" the scale of a character into something that's more consistent, in your findings?
If I had the time I could do it. I did try to for a couple examples (Devastator, Fort Max, Piranacon). The problems being- resources (people don't post scans), time (these take time to make), and overall competence (I just match pictures together with preprepared grids to find heights, but I suck at depth perception). Yes, I'd say the artists that didn't suck were fairly consistent at the end of the day. I'm sure any artist though will tell you that. Like riding a bicycle I guess. In my searches I've noticed fairly consistent sizes, again with the exception of shit art or situational scaling. Another problem with the ranged bar thing besides access to scans, time and wizard status in dimension-scaling -- is the limited character appearances. Like the cartoon the comics were for toy purposes. Other than the leaders or niche characters nobody really sticks around the whole story. Sunstreaker was dead pretty much the whole time. As I mentioned, I couldn't find much of Piranacon because he had two appearances. Optimus Prime would be easy enough, sure, as would "master" characters binary bonded to human-sized beings. But I'm limited in ability here which is why I'm glad I got so far. If I had the cash I'd buy all the comics myself but I just can't. And those with comics don't have the time to scan them or they feel scared or guilty about sharing 30 year old comics online for non-profit purposes which is just weird to me but there you go. It'd be a pain in the ass, but, yes I could do it.
Great job! I always felt like Blaster was the most inconsistantly sized TF in the entire Marvel run. I think between the size changing and the fact his toy was so giant there was more play room for his depiction. It would seem it's been longer than I thought, as I am even now drawing a blank on Underbase Starscream being so big. I'm not doubting you, it's just I really don't remember it happening. In my defense, it's been quite a while since I read the later Marvel Comics.
Post a couple of issues&appearances you need data from, I'll try to get you the info for some. And clear your PM box.
I would like to know the Warworld's actual size. If stated. I can't find any scans stating so, but I'd been on a site once claiming it was "moon-sized" which would help in a future chart I'm making on planet scale. If it's just a really big ship then it doesn't matter but if it's the size of a heavenly body I'll include it for reference. Again, any appearances of Abominus and Computron (their fight if possible) in Love and Steel!. Devastator's appearances in All Fall Down and The Next Best Thing To Being There. Honestly ANY information Liege Maximo's size would help. I couldn't really scale by Rook's size because of the distance between the two, but I've read that in the *non-canon* story by Furman that he's planet-sized which is a lot bigger than how *seems* in the G2 comic. Any issue with Scorponok fighting Shockwave. Shockwave has always been a problem because originally he was larger than Prime and Megatron, then switched to his cartoon-scaled subordinate size, then went toe to toe with Scorponok (albeit not as big as him). Lastly, Piranacon's apperances in Cold War and Enemy Action. Gestalts in Dreamwave. How big is Optimus here? I've never read Dreamwave but it's hard to come by scans of combiners next to humans or even standard Transformers next to humans. Dreamwave'll likely be the hardest since it's newer than Marvel but not in circulation like IDW. I know combiners are shown ridiculously huge, as is Omega Supreme. If I can get a sense of scale between normal bots and humans, then normal bots and giants then I can get a sense of general scale between giants and humans. IDW: So fare only 4 combiners have shown up: Monstructor, Devastator, Menasor and Superion. I have no good scans of any of them except Devastator. Devastator is with Omega Supreme and both match the Statue of Liberty/Liberty Island but the others I can't work. Monstructor has few appearances I can find where he's scalable. Menasor too. I have a real nice picture of Superion's first appearance, but he's with Ironhide and the Dinobots and I don't know the relative scale of general Autobots to humans so I can't put a size to Superion yet. Any size calcs for IDW would be welcome. I remember Megatron crushing a tank under his fist and swatting jets, but then he's the same size as a modestly 20-30ish ft Optimus. Scale is inconsistent in every series. Classics: Crossing Over Part III. This shows Devastator's Energon-based classics body in work and I'd like a visual understanding of Classics scale in comics to see if it carries over from Marvel's original run.
It's not and scaling it will be virtually impossible as it's only seen with other ships and planets. There are a few panels that have spacefighter G2 Decepticons, but it really doesn't help because you have no feel for perspective and in one appearance they're pretty much dots while in the other, it's a perspective shot that has the G2 Spacefighter cons as small against the incomplete image of the Warworld. The only picture of Liege Maximo is the image you've seen. He's never been officially seen since and there isn't any clue as to his size. Issues 72 and 73. Frankly, the scaling isn't very good. Shockwave is Starscream sized when he's with the other bots and cons, but when he makes his play and battles Scorponok, they are shown as essentially the same size (Scorponok is usually a hair taller, but not always). Until Scorponok transforms to Scorpion mode and is suddenly massive, dwarfing Shockwave. Scorponok is shown to be just a little bit shorter than Powermaster Prime. Piranacon in Issue 49 can only be really compared to Starscream. Starscream stands a little over knee tall compared to Piranacon.
Well damn. How would you rate the art of Piranacon? Better than his small size against Galvatron? I might refer to that portrayal over the one I used since it should at least make him him a few heads taller than Jetfire...
So remembered that! Fucking aight!? For Omega, I made an exception on his scale chart due to the transformation shown on screen. Alongside the whole mass resizing, his robot mode arms and his alt mode shuttle remain the same size. Just he's been separated from his body during the process. It's all on the wiki and I'm recovering in this work stack... That's the one! I think he got held up and arrested by those subordinate to the "NEW" leader of the Autobots, Grimlock, after that. Piranacon... I've sensed or gathered the idea that it is the art style. Redundant as it sounds, he goes from punching Galvatron to then shown towering him and trying to stomp on the guy, although I can't recall if this is Galvatron or Galvatron II here.
