Discrimination in transformers

starfish · 05-07-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfotaku

Right...no racism in TFs...except the entire "CAR BOMB ya" bit. Portraying Arabs as nothing but car bombers....not racist.

Why'd he change his name? Because Hollywood is also racist. America is also racist. Radio is also racist.

Of course, knowing all that would mean you'd have to, possibly, know how other people's cultures are reacted to in your own, and not just assume like you do.

I mean, it sounds like you're being rather racist yourself. Completely disavowing the experiences and prejudices other people had in their life for trivial matters or reasons? That's really insensitive, probably racist.

Hold up, player.

Making a figure-of-fun Arab character in 1980s Transformers is no more racist that the depictions of Saddam Hussein in South Park, or the 'Don't mention the war' scene in Fawlty Towers.

Just because we saw a couple of characatured Arab terrorists, it does not follow that the show was making fun of ALL arabs.

If I were working on a Hollywood project where the English were being negatively portrayed (Independence Day, Braveheart and The Patriot to pick a couple of examples), I'd just shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh, what the hey. Who cares?"

Is 'The Naked Gun' racist for having a comedy Russian? Are the 'Harold and Kumar' films racist for portraying ethnic minorites as drug-addled dimwits? Is 'Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure' racist for having a comedy Frenchman?

Aernaroth · 05-07-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starfish

Hold up, player.

Making a figure-of-fun Arab character in 1980s Transformers is no more racist that the depictions of Saddam Hussein in South Park, or the 'Don't mention the war' scene in Fawlty Towers.

Just because we saw a couple of characatured Arab terrorists, it does not follow that the show was making fun of ALL arabs.

If I were working on a Hollywood project where the English were being negatively portrayed (Independence Day, Braveheart and The Patriot to pick a couple of examples), I'd just shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh, what the hey. Who cares?"

Is 'The Naked Gun' racist for having a comedy Russian? Are the 'Harold and Kumar' films racist for portraying ethnic minorites as drug-addled dimwits? Is 'Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure' racist for having a comedy Frenchman?

In a way, yes, except for harold and kumar, which doesn't perpetuate an inaccurate and pervasive stereotype (that I'm aware of).

1984forever · 05-07-2012, 06:54 PM

I always thought Cosmos was a racist in-joke. I mean he has a Hispanic accent and he's a UFO. Kinda like an illegal alien.

Aernaroth · 05-07-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1984forever

I always thought Cosmos was a racist in-joke. I mean he has a Hispanic accent and he's a UFO. Kinda like an illegal alien.

His voice is meant to be a take-off of Peter Lorre, who was Austrian-American. I see where you're coming from on that, but can't say I hear it.

Transfotaku · 05-07-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

In IDW's MTMTE there's apparently discrimination against not just alt modes, but transformation itself. There's religious descrimination, like those who accept or don't accept Adaptus as the God of Transformation.

That's a poor example, seeing as IDW is about as accurate and understanding to TFs as the worst written fanfic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verno

What of the Predacons that came online after the end of the War and the signing of the Pax Cybertronia? They've done nothing to warrant the 'distaste' as you put it, yet they have to cop all the abuse.

And the phrase "Better dead than Pred" was used in BW by Cheetor, the youngest of the Maximals. It seems hatred, and yes it is hatred, towards the Predacons is indoctrinated into the Maximal youth.

Indoctrinated? Really? Show us the proof of that. Show us where Maximals have indoctrination camps that their 'young' grow up in.

And the Maximals - peaceful people who want to explore the galaxy - probably dislike the Preds, new and old, for a simple reason: The Preds keep trying to kill them!

I'm not going to be friendly to someone who keeps shooting at me, and I doubt you would be either. But that doesn't make one racist, that just means that people dislike the people trying to kill them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalogan

I don't know about Discrimination but there are alot of stereotypes:
Jazz
Beastwars Quickstrike
Carmbombya
Midnight Express
The hispanic kid from Armada ( which was one of the worst)

I dunno maybe even Rattrap

Jazz ain't a stereotype. He's just living up to his name. Quickstrike...he's more an archetype. Pretty much fitting the cowboy mold. Midnight Express? It's been awhile since I saw RiD (though I liked it), so forget the details...how would he fit as a stereotype?

Quote:

Originally Posted by starfish

Hold up, player.

Making a figure-of-fun Arab character in 1980s Transformers is no more racist that the depictions of Saddam Hussein in South Park, or the 'Don't mention the war' scene in Fawlty Towers.

Just because we saw a couple of characatured Arab terrorists, it does not follow that the show was making fun of ALL arabs.

If I were working on a Hollywood project where the English were being negatively portrayed (Independence Day, Braveheart and The Patriot to pick a couple of examples), I'd just shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh, what the hey. Who cares?"

Is 'The Naked Gun' racist for having a comedy Russian? Are the 'Harold and Kumar' films racist for portraying ethnic minorites as drug-addled dimwits? Is 'Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure' racist for having a comedy Frenchman?

You're conflating racism with charicature, and trying to use comedy examples to counter what is, supposedly, a drama. Doesn't work. You're also mistaking historical realism (Braveheart) for racism.

Every single Arab portrayed in the G1 cartoon, was portrayed in a racially insensitive and stereotypical way. I'd give that it was a fluke if it happened one time, to one character. But every single time? That's not a fluke, that's an agenda. Caybomya is racist because it was used in a racist manner, used for the very specific point of being racist, and made originally for the express point of portraying a group of people negatively.

Conversely, the British in Braveheart? That's not racism. That's showing things that actually happened. If it paints the British as evil in many ways (note: MANY ways, not ALL ways)...it's because that's actual British law and custom, actual British history, and actual events of British/Scottish history.

See the vast difference? One is painting entire groups of people negatively, and the other is showing negative actions that people actually performed.

Verno · 05-07-2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfotaku

Indoctrinated? Really? Show us the proof of that. Show us where Maximals have indoctrination camps that their 'young' grow up in.

And the Maximals - peaceful people who want to explore the galaxy - probably dislike the Preds, new and old, for a simple reason: The Preds keep trying to kill them!

I'm not going to be friendly to someone who keeps shooting at me, and I doubt you would be either. But that doesn't make one racist, that just means that people dislike the people trying to kill them.

Camps?

If you believe the story of the peace, a shot hasn't been fired in anger in 300 years. That's why they call it peace. Yet here we have hatred towards Predacons who never participated in the Great War, from a young Maximal, who also didn't participate in the War. What reason does he have to state that he'd rather be dead than be a Predacon other than discrimination?

He'd hate to be in their position, because they're downtrodden. And why are they downtrodden? Because the stigma associated with the war lingers.

G1_Cindersaur · 05-07-2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfotaku

That's a poor example, seeing as IDW is about as accurate and understanding to TFs as the worst written fanfic.

Indoctrinated? Really? Show us the proof of that. Show us where Maximals have indoctrination camps that their 'young' grow up in.

And the Maximals - peaceful people who want to explore the galaxy - probably dislike the Preds, new and old, for a simple reason: The Preds keep trying to kill them!

I'm not going to be friendly to someone who keeps shooting at me, and I doubt you would be either. But that doesn't make one racist, that just means that people dislike the people trying to kill them.

Jazz ain't a stereotype. He's just living up to his name. Quickstrike...he's more an archetype. Pretty much fitting the cowboy mold. Midnight Express? It's been awhile since I saw RiD (though I liked it), so forget the details...how would he fit as a stereotype?

You're conflating racism with charicature, and trying to use comedy examples to counter what is, supposedly, a drama. Doesn't work. You're also mistaking historical realism (Braveheart) for racism.

Every single Arab portrayed in the G1 cartoon, was portrayed in a racially insensitive and stereotypical way. I'd give that it was a fluke if it happened one time, to one character. But every single time? That's not a fluke, that's an agenda. Caybomya is racist because it was used in a racist manner, used for the very specific point of being racist, and made originally for the express point of portraying a group of people negatively.

Conversely, the British in Braveheart? That's not racism. That's showing things that actually happened. If it paints the British as evil in many ways (note: MANY ways, not ALL ways)...it's because that's actual British law and custom, actual British history, and actual events of British/Scottish history.

See the vast difference? One is painting entire groups of people negatively, and the other is showing negative actions that people actually performed.

the stasis pods are exactly those "camps"....

it scans a alt form...then installs said form and "maximal programs and values" into the protoform....

basically the same thing the installed predacon shell program did that tarantulas wrote and used on blackarchnia.

your either fighting for the maximals or the predacons....no choice of making your own way is given LOL

Wheeljack_Prime · 05-07-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfotaku

That's a poor example, seeing as IDW is about as accurate and understanding to TFs as the worst written fanfic.

Normally, you'd be right, but seeing as the relevant comic is penned by James Roberts...

Coeloptera · 05-08-2012, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaymac

The Jointrons in Beast Wars II are Mexican stereotypes.

Japan is not a bastion of racial sensitivity, no.

As for Casem and Carbomya...
http://www.ameu.org/getattachment/eb...the-Media.aspx

That's in the man's own words. Not the entire subject, but it's mentioned in there fairly prominently.

- Coeloptera

starfish · 05-08-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfotaku

You're conflating racism with charicature, and trying to use comedy examples to counter what is, supposedly, a drama. Doesn't work. You're also mistaking historical realism (Braveheart) for racism.

The point is, Braveheart isn't historically accurate. That's my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfotaku

Every single Arab portrayed in the G1 cartoon, was portrayed in a racially insensitive and stereotypical way. I'd give that it was a fluke if it happened one time, to one character. But every single time? That's not a fluke, that's an agenda. Caybomya is racist because it was used in a racist manner, used for the very specific point of being racist, and made originally for the express point of portraying a group of people negatively.

I take your point to a certain extent, but where do you draw the line between characature/stereotyping and overt racism? I mean, look at how the movie 'Borat' poked fun at Khazakstan; is that any worse that what the G1 cartoons did? I agree it's a thorny subject, and it's down to the individual as to how offended they want to get. Personally, my view is that, although Carbomya strays very close to the line for some people, I still think it's okay. Your mileage may vary, and that is, of course, your own choice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfotaku

Conversely, the British in Braveheart? That's not racism. That's showing things that actually happened. If it paints the British as evil in many ways (note: MANY ways, not ALL ways)...it's because that's actual British law and custom, actual British history, and actual events of British/Scottish history.

See the vast difference? One is painting entire groups of people negatively, and the other is showing negative actions that people actually performed.

If your entire argument is based on Braveheart's historical accuracy, then I think we're gonna have to end the debate here. 2001: A Space Odyssey is more historically accurate than Braveheart!

05-07-2012, 06:54 PM	#53
1984forever Banned Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 979 Location: Brooklyn, NY	I always thought Cosmos was a racist in-joke. I mean he has a Hispanic accent and he's a UFO. Kinda like an illegal alien.