The Transformers - Soldiers or Super Heros?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by General Magnus, May 29, 2010.

  1. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Soldiers, people only see super-heros because their war methods are far more advanced.
     
  2. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    So Tony Stark isn't a superhero because his gear is more advanced than anyone else?
     
  3. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Tony Stark is a superhero because his gear is extremely powerful based on human standards (theyre called SUPER for a reason) and isn't on a civil war with factions and isn't called a good soldier by his comrades in fiction and various other things presented in transformers that give 'em the roles of soldiers, generals, medics, communication officers and others, just because the odd robot can turn invinsible doesn't mean he's a super hero, that's like saying a sniper is a super hero because he can do things a random dude manning a tank can't.
     
  4. E. C. R. Former

    E. C. R. Former Is probably insane...

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    Yes. Though it varies somewhat between continuities, any Kryptonian will eventually develop super powers if they stay long enough under Earth's yellow sun.

    Last I checked, Tony Stark wasn't a part of any organized armed forces or hierarchy. Nor is he fighting in a long, drawn out civil war (Marvel's Civil War not withstanding). Iron Man is a super hero, not a soldier.

    Captain America on the other hand, now there's a guy who was both a super hero and a full fledged soldier of the Army.
     
  5. Rhapsody_Prime

    Rhapsody_Prime ...such Heroic Nonsence.

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    I agree completely with Kusanagi here. How many time do we see the sorrow, or feel the pain from the autobots in regards to having to fight??

    The decepticons, on the other hand seem to revel in every minute of it.

    End of Line
     
  6. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Actually that depends on which "continuity" were talking about.

    DC has "retconed" Supermans history quite often.The Golden Age Kryptonions did indeed have "super powers" compaired to humans, but those powers were hampered by Krypton's gravity.
     
  7. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

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    I'm not really sure what the common definition of "super hero", but I really can't even see any grounds for comparison here.

    Autobots are soldiers locked in a civil war with their direct nemeses, the Decepticons. Their conflict is personal, and we just happen to be caught in between. Some Autobots are "super" in terms of their exceptional abilities and powers, and certainly there are many "heroes", but the entire concept is very difficult to hammer into a "superhero" theme.

    Animated tried it, but it never worked especially well. It still felt like a novelty, and a distraction from what the series was supposed to be about.

    zmog
     
  8. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    To me it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.
     
  9. Blitz.

    Blitz. Well-Known Member

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    its all about the context on cybertron they are the norm so their soldiers on earth their something special and their acts make them into what could be seen as super heroes.
     
  10. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Solider's.....The only time the autobots where superheores was animated and they had to fight the worst Marvel/DC rejects ever.
     
  11. Cybertronian

    Cybertronian Well-Known Member

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    What he says. Animated (and in some cases the American G1 cartoon) make them out to be heroes/villains to everyone else. Beast Wars, and to a lesser extent the Unicron Trilogy bring out more of the military perspective.
     
  12. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Soldiers fighting a war.
     
  13. The Madness

    The Madness News Credits: -13

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    I agree with the matter of perspective, isn't that part of the necessity of the 'human element'? to not only develop scale in a physical sense, but bring scale to their actions/ abilities also?


    On a different point, one I honestly couldn't be bothered adequately verifying; Wasn't the first live action Transformers movie eventually sold to the studios on the basis that it was part of the then popular Superhero genre? I know there were some Disaster Film comparisons too, and it could be argued that it borrowed a few elements from that genre also.

    SMOG: I've never really found definitions of Superheroes to be consistent, some are too specific for labeled and established Superheroes to adhere, and some are loose enough to shove anyone powerful with a nice set of morals into, (or just anyone wearing a costume).

    Then again, if you're not registered... you're not a real super hero.
     
  14. Deadend

    Deadend Spark of Creation

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    In G1 cartoon, quints only claimed creating the race, but did create the transorganics, and enslaved the autobots. Whether or not they really did create them is open to interpretation. The autobot rebellion which was the revolt against the quints was long before the decepticons were created as shown in season 3 time travel episodes.
    The decepticon's were the military, as told in five faces of darkness, and war dawn, as well as small mentions of how megatron kept his soldiers in secret of omega supreme. Other S1-S2 eps with flashbacks can verify this. Including Skyfire which was before Starscream joined the decepticon militia, since skyfire doesn't even know what Decepticons are.

    The Marvel comics I already admitted were a mess, and IDW was the simplest way to convey it, it's a little more complicated than a quick blurb can cover.

    In the movie-verse history has forgotten the fallen, only megatron's side knows of it. Prime only recently realized he was a prime too. He and megatron originally ran two sides of the planet, Megatron ran the military side, and Prime ran the civilian and science side. Megatron wanted the allspark for his own motives, declared them traitors when they chose not to fight for the planet, and it's also breifly stated in ROTF as well, that Prime is a traitor to his race since he won't save it from extinction. (Forest battle) The fallen is more like the shadow puppet master using the politics to enslave the race, but even so that makes the autobots to their law traitors, whether they are in the right or not.

    The definitions of either side really mean nothing, it's all in the hands of how that universe used it with proof from their own fiction.
     
  15. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Thats not entrilly accurate.

    Yes the Quints claimed to have created the TF's....but it wasnt just "only" they that made the claim.

    That is incorrect.

    5 faces of Darkness shows us , in flash back, that the Consumer line [Autobots] and the Military Hardware line [Decepticons] were constructed at the same time.

    Thats not the exact impression I got.I got the impression that Prime was fully aware of their history and his ancestry....but he kept it a secret.
     
  16. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    I don't consider the comics canon since when a new movie come it invalidates it. Jetfire was a Decepticon but didn't know about Optimus Prime. Autobots didn't know about the Fallen, this is explained as all their recorded history is on the Allspark. Meaning the previous civil war conflict was kept from the younger generation. Yet young Decepticons like Wheelie know all about the Seekers. The Fallen is called the first Decepticon because he is the one who started it and was the power behind the throne of Megatron.
     
  17. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

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    The word "superhero" might have been used to promote the idea, but I think the term "comic book" might be more accurate. Transformers is certainly a "comic book" genre, but I wouldn't equate that term with Superheroes, despite the fact that Superheroes are the most prominent examples of that medium.

    Considering that "comic book" movies have become major event movies, and special effects vehicles of late, I can see why a live-action Transformers movie might have been pitched along those same lines.

    But really... whatever the definition, I have a hard time aligning Transformers with the Superhero genre. In the few cases where the styles overlap, it still feels like more of an exception than the rule.

    If you wanted to look to the Japanese Super Robot genre, you might be able to make a stronger case, though I might argue that Super Robots could even stand as a genre of their own.

    zmog
     
  18. The Madness

    The Madness News Credits: -13

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    I certainly wouldn't consider Transformers as 'traditional' Superheroes, and don't wish for them to be labeled as such. I also don't want to have them relating to the 'Traditionals' in anything more than a few brief meetings in a couple of obscure Marvel alternate realities.

    Likewise, I wouldn't want to catagorise them as 'traditional' toy soldiers/ military collectables, or call ROTF a war movie because some of the TFs depicted are considered soldiers set in a war.

    My stance to the OP question is: Neither and both. I just thought I'd expand on it.

    This thread really has no more risk of polluting the term "Superhero" than it has the likeliness of distorting the accepted definition of "soldier".
     
  19. Evil Dead

    Evil Dead Well-Known Member

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    I think they're soldiers, out of necessity. (Unless, of course, they start wearing capes--then, I think it's a safe bet they'd definately be superheroes. ^__^)
     
  20. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Michael Bay himself apparently sees Transformers as a superhero movie. So for BayFormers I guess they're superheroes not soldiers. Ironic really considering Bay's hard-on for the military.

    Link of at least one example since someone will no doubt come and demand a source:

    Michael Bay – This is my superhero movie – Preview reactions : TransformersFans.com