I'm ignoring the rest because the crux of your argument seems to be that characterization in modern comics should rely on older material as basis, but this part stuck out to me. Overlord isn't stronger than Megatron. Maybe if the reignited passion of the Overlord from "Under Cold Blue Stars" faced the Fool's Energon powered Megs of today than he would be, but every time Overlord and Megatron fought, Overlord lost. So much so that it created an easily-exploitable pathological defect within Overlord's brain.

The thing about Nuke and about Megatron is that now we really have no way of putting them in a strict power hierarchy like you describe. We don't know how powerful Nuke makes the DJD, other than that five of them on Nuke can take down a Phase 6er. Megatron's POP spark comes from the Seething Moon, and as far as we know he's the only Cybertronian alive with a spark from that moon, green or otherwise.

 

...but not without a little flaming first, ey? These are my OPINIONS, this is not a debate about some objective truth to be proven. If you want to back your accusations up, then tell me WHAT I´ve been ignoring, WHAT has been "proven wrong" WHAT "silly" stuff I have been "digging up". Make a list, and I will address your complaints, one by one. If you can´t (which I suspect is the case), then by all means, stay out of this discussion, and try to learn to accept that sometimes people think different from you.

 

As much as I want to agree with you, it was made quite clear by Prowl in MTMTE that: "Some Cybertronians are markedly more powerful than others: Optimus, Grimlock, Megatron. Fort Max on a good day. I think those are your "once-in-a-generation" bots. But they pale in comparison - all of them - they pale when compared with Overlord and Sixshot and "Tarn"."

Phase Sixer - Transformers Wiki

You are right about Megatron and Overlord dueling, though. Could it be that Overlord was made stronger through the warriors elite process? Or just that Megatron always had the upper hand in terms of fighting skill and that he only needed to install the Achilles Virus into Overlord to make up for the latter´s newly acquired near-invulnerability and unlimited stamina?

I don´t mind characters getting major overhauls in IDW, but I do admit that I like established characters to be the superior ones. Again, a matter of taste, and one day Tarn will most likely be an established part of the ever growing TF roster. And for the 100th time, I really do like him  

 

This could be the best case for the DJD´s seeming OP-ishness yet! Resources? Buy it. Intel? Buy it. Pack factor? Buy it.

It could be that Vos alt-mode is an insanely powerful sniper rifle, and that is how they for example initially took down Black Shadow; one wounding surprise shot and then they came down on him, on Nuke, all at once.

Also, it indeed seems that power levels for various characters vary with writer, story arc and sometimes even issue. "Thor Megatron" fighting D-Void, next being ripped in half by Galvatron being one example.

All the above, and the argument about the DJD being more of a plot device than proper characters, fair enough. I STILL think them taking out the LL crew with seeming ease is a but too much in ANY case, and obviously some people agree with me. Either way, I am eager to see what happens from here on!

 

A couple of things I'll point out. The Overlord/Tarn/Etc. power level wasn't introduced with Roberts, but prior, with Sixshot... however at the same time, while Sixshot was clearly overpowered as heck, the Earth team was definitely able to fight him, with Optimus and Hardhead both having some effect.

I think Roberts does play up the P6 power level a bit more (like the Black Shadow vs a Battalion thing), as I don't believe Sixshot + 4 strong bots could take on the whole LL crew.

Certainly he was upgraded. That's when the virus was added at the same time, and they stopped fighting.

 

Voted for option three.

 

Speaking as someone who's in the middle of a watch-through of Masterforce, I'll say that while they're clearly different characters, at the same time, there's a surprising amount in common.

They're both very powerful warriors, who're smug as hell about it, but also willing to use tricks and such to catch their foes off-guard, and who are very focused on beating particular individuals- Megatron or Ginrei. And whom only a very limited

Heck, when it comes to phase-sixing, Overlord even went city to city causing destruction at one point.



So sure, one is two people while the other is a living weapon turned against his master, but to an extent, they both have some role overlap. It's not like a Star Saber situation.

 

That's very true.

 

Then what's the problem? What makes it so ridiculous?

 

I said it before and I will say it again. The djd battle with LL2 autobots probaly left several of them damaged severely. We never saw the end of it. Just the dead bodies of the LL2 crew. Even on the nuke, some of them were probaly hurt. Sure they had to have had the element of surprise, and took out several heavy hitters in the beginning, but that many autobots should have caused some kind of damage to them.

 

Upon rereading your post, and the ones prior to it, they don't seem as bad as I first thought. You were prompted to recycle your argument that characters can only be this powerful if they have big toys and, no offense to GWolfv2, but his argument against your claim the DJD are Mary Sues wasn't very good and is what prompted said recycling of previous arguments.

I guess I simply hadn't read it all properly. In the words of Animated Bulkhead, sorry, my bad.

 

I agree that should be the case, though the implication we see is actually more that the Galactics and Black Box were the one who did the damage.

 

Hey, no problem! Happens to all of us, sorry if I replied too harshly! Overall, I think we had an interesting discussion and I surely got a few new perspectives on things, thanks to you too! Thank you for contributing  

 

It´s still a tad bit too much in my opinion, the LL part at least (I have kind of come around with Black Shadow). But maybe we´ll learn more about that event at some point.

As for the title of this thread, I made sure to make it a bit eye-catching  

 

Agreed. When IDW first got the license I really wanted them to keep Prime & Megatron held back for only big events. It's annoying that when a major threat emerges. Only OP can save the day. It would be like DC ended every major event with Batman saving the day.
I think I enjoyed the Barber & Robert's season one stuff because we get to see other characters step. Megatron is defeated because Wheeljack out witted him.
Tailgate saves half the Cybertronian race.

 

But that's usually how things are for DC nowadays.  

 

I was the one who replied too harshly, but I agree, we had a good discussion. I do agree Tarn could fall under Mary Sue, I just don't see it as a problem. I feel it's justified in universe and, for the most part, from a writing stand point.

 

I think tarn should step up and start his campaign for Leader. Although, Soundwave and shockwave would be a good choice too. Tarn should have his DJD as the starting building blocks to rebuild it.

 

Yeah, you would think that... TARN!!!

 

Hm or Superman, yea.


--

Lesse, in IDW, the Dead Universe Expansion was stopped by team effort (sure, Optimus punched out a dude, but the Pretenders, Jetfire, and Arcee did the stuff to actually prevent the universe from taking over). Infestation (shudder) was Kup/Prowl. Tyrest, Tailgate. City on Fire, Wheeljack. Even Dark Cybertron was more Megatron-thanks-to-Bumblebee than anyone else.

I like this pattern. Optimus plays key roles, but he often isn't the one that saves the day.